The June Off-Topic Thread

By June 8, 2017Other

For Margaret and others…

Join the discussion 63 Comments

  • margaret says:

    Thanks! That link didn’t work, so this is the longer link (always conscious of Bryan’s anathema to long links but as yet haven’t investigated tiny URL).

    • spangled drongo says:

      “…..there are no facts anymore.”

      Marg, this isn’t about “humility”, this is really about “experts” being arrogant and agenda-bound as opposed to ordinary people being told to disbelieve their lying eyes.

      When “experts” tell us about the certainty of catastrophic man made climate change based on their known sea level rise yet over a lifetime of critical observation some people see no evidence of any sea level rise [in fact, the reverse] they are told they are arrogant for suggesting the “experts” are wrong.

      When it is acknowledged by the common citizen that what the world really needs is a better method of producing clean energy yet when the govt offers universities money to establish such a faculty with a proven expert in that field, by denying there is a gaping hole of knowledge in that respect, pressure is put on all universities to reject that money and expertise.

      When an ASIO “expert” [dept head] tells us there is no connection between Islam and terror we are arrogant for believing what we know and observe.

      When environmental “experts” tell us that the dingo needs to be considered a native animal and given protection [even though it is the same DNA as the pariah dog of Asia and was brought here by Asian fisherman] and this protection is totally destroying our native mammals because they never evolved alongside canids, we are arrogant for simply being aware of what’s really going on in our national parks and bushlands and demanding correction of this “expert” ignorance.

      Ordinary people aren’t arrogant because they are involved and aware and have a different POV to “experts” with political agendas.

      Perhaps you should read this:

      • margaret says:

        Thanks for putting a feminist tag on an article that has nothing to do with feminism.
        Perhaps you should read this.

        • spangled drongo says:

          Marg, it has everything to do with feminism and you’re never happier than when you have a fem tag to chew on so I thought I’d make your day.

          But you could get some real facts for a change instead of your usual fauxfacts:

          • margaret says:

            As AC says, take a chill pill … and I’ll add – read the article – she says everything you need to know. I can’t get past The Australian’s pay wall anyway. Annabelle Crabb says the same thing regarding the ban as Cassie Jaye and that to watch the film is not to suddenly be ‘enlightened’ anyway.
            Cassie Jaye sounds weird to me, or perhaps just a failed Hollywood starlet turned ‘director’ clutching at straws.

          • spangled drongo says:

            “Annabelle Crab– she says everything you need to know.”

            That says more of what I need to know, marg, about your flawed opinion.

            You [and Annabelle] just don’t get what the banning really says. The ignorance of “experts” strikes again:

            “The branding of The Red Pill as “sinister”, a documentary that “dehumanises women”, is striking for two reasons. First, for its rehabilitation of the old, Inquisition-era idea that some ideas aren’t just wrong, they’re dangerous: they’re toxins that, once set loose, can drive people mad and cause mayhem. Whenever you hear someone discussing a film or book or artwork as a threat to safety and stability, you know we’re in the realm of old-world, full-on censorship.

            The second reason it’s striking is because of what it says about women. It makes them into a special social category, sad creatures who can be badly damaged by culture, by ideas. It implies that they lack the moral and mental resources to thrive in a world in which people can say whatever they want. That is, women are too weak to cope with freedom and its consequences. We see this all the time now — censorship aimed at protecting women from offence.”

          • margaret says:

            Doctor says increase dose of chill pill.

          • spangled drongo says:

            But either way you fems have to bury it.

            You can’t deal with it and debate it.

            What does it remind you of?

          • margaret says:

            Spangled you are as usual not making any sense …

          • spangled drongo says:

            Marg, you don’t get that the fems don’t want to publically debate the facts of the lack of male equality?

            Just as climate alarmists don’t want to publically debate the facts of climate science.

            Or “clean” energy.

            Just as those in authority don’t want to publically debate the involvement of Islam in terrorism.

            Or the real cause of native wildlife demise etc., etc.

            For them “the science is settled”. Let’s move on.

            But it is a very half-baked “science”.

            How does that saying go?

            Those that can, do. Those that can’t, teach.

            And those that can’t teach, teach teachers.

          • spangled drongo says:

            This half baked “science” is the work of ideologues, marg, and should be treated with great scepticism.

          • margaret says:

            But since you think I’m only interested in feminism…
            Bettina has your back.
            “Cassie Jaye is an articulate, 29 year old blonde whose previous movies on gay marriage and abstinence education won multiple awards. But then she decided to interview leaders of the Men’s Rights Movement (MRM) for a documentary she was planning about rape culture on American campuses. As a committed feminist Jaye expected to be unimpressed by these renowned hate-filled misogynists but to her surprise she was exposed to a whole range of issues she came to see as unfairly stacked against men and boys.”

            Thanks Bettina, it was an important fact to know that Cassie Jaye is blonde and 29 and has done so much already!
            These facts are very very important in the search for truth of the issues stacked against men and boys.
            Cry me river.

      • margaret says:

        “… there are no facts anymore …” … Spangled Drongo please supply the full supposed quote from the article I linked to.
        I cannot find any sentence with those words in it.
        Also there is not one reference to feminism or feminists and absolutely no connection to the film The Red Pill.

    • Bryan Roberts says:

      “Bryan’s anathema”

      Could be a little more felicitously phrased.

    • margaret says:

      Ah Nigel – the very essence of an OWM (he may not even be that old … and yet … he probably always has been).

      “Mr Farage admitted that he expected Mrs May will win a large majority after the 50-day election campaign.
      Mr Farage said: “In 2015, fear of the SNP dominating a Labour government was used to drive UKIP voters to the Tories and it worked.”

      • margaret says:

        “In October 2016, Farage praised Trump for “dominating” Hillary Clinton, comparing him to a silverback gorilla.
        Following revelations of a 2005 audio recording in which Trump was heard making lewd remarks about women, Farage said that Trump’s comments were “ugly” but described them as “alpha male boasting” and stated that women also made remarks they would not want to see reported.”
        Ah Nigel … vive la difference eh.

  • Chris Warren says:

    So judging by the UK election it seems the Alternative to the Real Trump is Jeremy Corbyn?

    • tripitaka says:

      Yes Chris, Go Jeremy Corbin.

      What a hoot the UK election turned out to be and such a good result for an old white man who has maintained his honesty and integrity for so long during the dark decades when the greedy and selfish people took over the media and forced their individualist ideology onto ordinary people and allowed the drongo type people to display and be loud and proud of all their less than admirable character traits that used to be disdained by ordinary people.

      I heard that Rupert was not happy with the results. 🙂

      • margaret says:

        Rupert would not have been happy and I bet he’s head-hunting Nick Rowley to write some maliciousness for him … a Blairite who is on the Tory-Lite side of Labour.
        Former advisor to Tony Blair says:

        “Jeremy Corbyn is the most unlikely of modern political leaders. His suits don’t fit. He rides a bicycle. And in his spare time he enjoys growing vegetables in his North London allotment.

        Since becoming an MP in 1983, he has gone from a young left wing firebrand railing against Margaret Thatcher, to an older man with a grey beard symbolising the “Old Left”.
        Not even his own Labour members of Parliament, the people who observe him on daily basis, like or trust him.”

    • margaret says:

      Yes, not all owm are out of touch with how the other half live. Jeremy Corbyn doesn’t change (but in a good way, consistent – he remains a true left politician who cares about the lives of the many not the few, and lives his life the same way).

      And, not all oww are free of hubris – although Theresa May was handed a poison chalice which even that humbug boofhead Boris Johnson didn’t dare take on.

      • tripitaka says:

        Seems to me that Doug Cameron is the only one of our Aussie ‘lefties’ who has remained true to the old values that Corbyn (:)) espouses and that my father raised me to admire and I’ve never doubted that there is such a thing as society and that the inclusive values of justice and fairness for all not just those able to take advantage of less able people are the ones that will bring about a better world.

        Hawke and Keating went to the darkside with their full on embrace of neo-liberalism. Hopefully Labor in Australia will be taking note of the fact that so many people are waking up to the problems that have always been inherent in so called free market capitalism; what Prof Quiggin calls Zombie economics.

        Apparently there is even some awareness of the failures of neo-classical economics in the academy and a brief overview of the changes that are happening in the way economics is taught was presented on the RN program The Money.

        “Listen to the news or pick up the paper and you’ll be faced with economics. Housing prices, wage stagnation, interest rates… it’s everywhere. But is it good enough? An insurgency within the discipline says it isn’t. Begun by university students, who feel the discipline is too narrow and too reliant on models that don’t always work, they want economics to be more connected to the real world. They’ve formed an organisation calling for change – Rethinking Economics.”

        RN articles are free to listen to and used to be free to read when the ABC could afford to provide transcripts; no paywall there. I love the free stuff that the ABC provides that are available for all of us to increase our understanding of the changes are that happening in the world.

        And Margaret, if you want to breach the paywall of the Australian, google a phrase from the article – to find the Red Pill article, I used “cassie jay says film protests are an attack on free speech” which I copied from the link drongo shared – and then choose the article from the list of results google finds. It is usually the first one, click on it and when the page has loaded press down on the ‘esc’ button. You might have to be quick to use the esc button on some articles but for some others it is not even necessary. Not that it is worth the bother except for a laugh to read anything in the Australian.

    • spangled drongo says:

      And there we were thinking the brits had woken up.

      But it is always hard to defeat the entitlement mentality of the neo Marxists.

  • Chris Warren says:

    More drongo fake news…

    When “experts” tell us about the certainty of catastrophic man made climate change based on their known sea level rise

    I know of no expert who has noted any certainty of “catastrophic man made climate change based on their known sea level rise “.

    The certainty is based only on continuing accumulation of GHGs in the atmosphere.

    If GHG’s accumulate long enough there will be a climate catastrophe.

    • spangled drongo says:

      The blitherer-in-chief doesn’t get that the only real proof of global warming is SLR.

      GHGs are still only on his wish-list.

      Could he possibly be claiming the “experts” don’t feed us the faked satellite “data” for this reason?

    • ianl8888 says:

      More glibset vacuousness:

      > “If GHG’s accumulate long enough there will be a climate catastrophe”

      Atmospheric CO2 levels reached around 10,000ppm in the Cretaceous (one example) without climatic armageddon (that took a hit from a Hammer of Thor – a very large meteorite). Glacial epochs, climate catastrophes by most biological measures, are caused by the subtle interactions of various gravitational fields as best described by Milankovitch.

      So how long is “long enough” ? Numbers, thank you, not arm waving or links to Mickey Mouse green blob websites that evade any real discussion.

      • Chris Warren says:


        You do not know what you are talking about.

        Your statement:

        are caused by the subtle interactions of various gravitational fields

        is false.

        Milankovitch cycles impact the climate through varying solar insolation not gravitation.

        Miankovitch cycles naturally reverse. On the other hand GHG emissions above the Earth’s capacity to reabsorb (ie sink) are permanent and accumulate over time.

        The imposition of a Cretaceous climate would be a catastrophe as it would mean that global temperatures would substantially exceed modern temperatures at equivalent latitudes.

        So it is you who is the epitome of “glibset vacuousness”.

        I hope the rest of your life is more productive.

    • Chris Warren says:

      More fake news from drongo …

      the only real proof of global warming is SLR.

      Crazy nonsense as usual from the drongo.

      Proof is multifaceted and beyond the ken of drongo’s.

      • spangled drongo says:

        Well it’s certainly beyond the ken of blitherers.

        My proof is so far ahead of your undemonstrable “multifacets” it isn’t funny.

        [Thinks] I wonder why there is no local SLR [in fact the reverse] for the last 70 years if the world is net warming?

      • JimboR says:

        Here you go Drongo:

        You’re going to have to keep visiting your mark-on-a-rock at Cleveland Point for a few more years yet. Let us know if nothing has shown up by 2030.

        • spangled drongo says:

          Tell ya what might be better, jimb:

          try sticking your head out the window yourself instead of believing the blitherers’ bibles.

          It will amaze you what facts are just around the corner awaiting your innocent, eager eyes.

          • Chris Warren says:


            Throwing facts at a drongo will not work.

            Drongo’s don’t read science.

            They just sprout false news, falsifications and general gibberish.

            The whining of a dentists drill is more appealing than sound of the drongo.

          • JimboR says:

            Oops, my bad. It’s a shame drongos can’t read science because in this case the science is in full support of the drongo’s field observations: SLR not discernible above natural variations until about 2030 on the eastern seaboard, and 2040 on the western.

            Even when the “so called experts” are in violent agreement with the drongo, the drongo rejects their findings, it’s almost as if it’s allergic to science. Perhaps it had a scarring encounter with a scientist as a young chick.

          • spangled drongo says:

            It’s a shame you can’t understand OR read, jimb, because that’s exactly what I was trying to get through to ya.

            They agree with me up to the present but have to carry on like the alarmists they are by predicting blithering doom with face tattoos.

            As our blither in chief does on a regular basis.

            Here’s my rock at Cleveland Point btw:


          • JimboR says:

            So Drongo when you ask:

            “I wonder why there is no local SLR [in fact the reverse] for the last 70 years if the world is net warming?”

            I’d answer: because that’s what the scientists predict. You seem to be claiming there should be an even faster SLR than science predicts, and then looking around for someone to blame when you find no evidence of it. It’s your theory that you should be able to see SLRs at Cleveland Point now, not theirs. Your evidence disputes your theory… your problem.

          • spangled drongo says:

            ‘“I wonder why there is no local SLR [in fact the reverse] for the last 70 years if the world is net warming?”’

            “I’d answer: because that’s what the scientists predict.”

            Or if you were prepared to man up you could even put it this way: that science predicted, ACO2 caused AGW has not yet happened and if it hasn’t happened with all those emissions it probably never will.

            My prollem? My theory?

            Your cognitive impairment.

          • JimboR says:

            Probably never will in your lifetime Drongo, so you can stand down at Cleveland Point if you like. I went to a two year old’s birthday party on the weekend… he’s likely to be around in 2100, and if the scientists are correct about the ToE for the eastern seaboard, he’ll be turning 15 when it first becomes noticeable. Maybe he can take over from you and spend his entire adult life watching it unfold.

          • spangled drongo says:

            JImb, these wackers like Church who have claimed SLR far in excess of observations now, after a reality attack, admit that CC and SLR are not discernible from natural climate variability.

            I have been trying to tell you this for a long time and you now are finally believing it but also choose to believe their claims that the monster is still behind the door.

            You and the B-I-C just absolutely insist that beds are for wetting, hey?

            I hear those forehead tatts are painful, too.

  • spangled drongo says:

    Don, this could be the solution for Canberra’s transport prollems. Rubber-tyred train:

  • Chris Warren says:

    We now have clear evidence of anti-climate denialism.

    Faced with clear evidence of a heat spot in the atmosphere several tyros of denial have asserted “the missing hotspot is missing”.

    Even though the evidence is right in front of them at:

    Admittedly you need a bit of analysis to interpret this trend.

    If there was no Green House effect, then as one moved up through the atmosphere, the temperature would steadily decline in a almost straight line.

    Using the available data, this would mean at around 300 hPa’s a natural temperature would be around zero.

    Instead we have almost 0.2.

    As the variation from ground to top TMT is a range of +0.1 to -0.1 we can see that the hotspot constitutes an enormous relative disruption of expected natural patterns.

    And every indication is that it will get worse.

  • Chris Warren says:

    Forget drongo’s drivel.

    Proven sea level rise is around 1 foot per century.

    Denialists can cry and fret all they like.

    • spangled drongo says:

      “Proven sea level rise is around 1 foot per century.”

      Because I have it tattooed on my forehead, see!!

      • Chris Warren says:

        That is the wrong place to have it.

        No wonder you are all confused.

        • spangled drongo says:

          “That is the wrong place to have it.”

          I’m pleased you found that out. Knocks those frontal lobes around something awful.

          What are you going to do about it?

  • Chris Warren says:

    While some associate the motto:

    “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need”

    with social justice, it is also possible to associate social justice with:

    “From each according to their abilities, to each according to their contribution”.

    Although the second contains less social justice than the first, it can be improved by allowing for allocations to the aged and disabled and for sharing the burden during natural disasters or catastrophic accidents.

    • tripitaka says:

      I think that it is more ‘fraught’, more difficult to define “contribution” than it is to define “need”. Being aged and disabled and unlucky can detract from an individuals ability to contribute, but these reasons for not contributing are subsumed by the broader term “needs”.

      It is the belief that individuals can be ranked that some individuals are worth more than others and what these individuals contribute is more valuable than any other human is what prevents social justice from being the default state in which human groups live.

      I think that there is another old old maxim that if followed and if children were raised to accept, would ensure that social justice is the norm for human societies; there is no better person in the world than me and I am not more valuable or worth more than any other person.

      For example, the vaguely libertarian drongos here imagine that they have contributed a lot to our society despite not believing in society but in my assessment they have taken and taken and not given back because of their need to believe that they are better people than others and in doing the best they can for themselves they are contributing rather than taking. That is the wrongness of libertarian ideology that has afflicted our society.

      • margaret says:

        I agree with the maxim. My mother in law brought her five children up with a variation of that – “you are no better than anyone else” – it needs to be accompanied with demonstration of love and given that every child is different, one or two in the family bucked against that maxim because they hated the poverty that was part of family life.
        I know she was coming from a Christian perspective but the children could have done with a bit more “you are great!”. She was actually loving and delightful but once again, so common an experience for many of us whose ancestry involves the two world wars, she married a significantly war-damaged man who had spent the entire years of WWII in its various theatres. They went AWOL in the middle of the war for a couple of weeks. He was extremely quiet, at heart very kind, but ruled his tribe quite hard (not surprisingly, since he spent years as a military provost).
        He could not make a go of soldier settlement through no fault of his own – an extremely hard worker.
        Thanks tripitaka – I think the sharing of personal perspectives of actual families who actually live in society as we all actually do shines truth on so much barren argument and ideology.

        • tripitaka says:

          I agree that the acceptance that one is no better than anyone else, needs to be equally balanced by the first part of the saying, that is, I am the best person in the world. That does not happen often enough and that did not happen in my family. It was my mother who I think tried to balance the unconditional love and approval that my father provided by being very critical and never giving any praise. lol even extraordinary achievements of mine were ‘balanced’ by a comment that scathingly pointed out somewhere I had failed to live up to her expectations.

          I cannot imagine how my parents thought they could get along; they were such different people with virtually nothing in common. They were both were too young to have been badly affected by the war directly; my mother was 12 or 13 during the way because she tells us that American servicemen stationed in Brisbane taught her to drive and then she was able to drive the produce to the markets.

          Her father had come home from WW1 so damaged that he spent most of the rest of his life in bed with headaches unable to work on the farm and my grandmother and my mother and her sisters ran the farm. They were socially isolated as my grandfather also suffered from anxiety and the only interaction with people they had was at the Jehovah’s Witnesses church that they had joined because of the pacifist leanings pre WW2 that the JW’s had. My mother had left school aged 8 or so to help on the farm – it was also a 4 mile walk to school – where she was teased and bullied.

          My father on the other hand had finished a fine arts degree and his mother had come from a wealthy family who cut her out totally when she eloped with a black sheep who was also from a wealthy family and he – my father’s father – turned out to be a real cad – as her father had warned her that he would be. He returned from WW2 with the sort of PTSD that left him violent and terrifying to the family; the blessing being that he frequently left them for other women and other pursuits.

          My grandmother was sociable and talented, well educated and not religious at all; she played piano on the radio back when such things were done by real people, ran an upmarket dress shop at one time and was involved in the establishment of the Qld Braille association and managed to support herself and her children.

          It seems that they got together because of my father’s interest in the JW’s and their pacifism but this didn’t last long and he was quickly disillusioned and was then anti-church, anti-religion for the rest of his life calling Christians hypocrites for not living up to their beliefs. He was always willing to check out new ideas but very quick to see the faults.

          It seems that since mum wasn’t interested in ideas or meeting people dad used to talk to me about things he was reading about like Buddhism and philosophy including Thomas Paine, he bought serious books for me and took me to events such as the theatre and even Theosophical society meetings.

          He said that if I was smarter than other people, it did not make me a better person, it was nothing to be proud of, it meant that I had more obligations to those less smart than me and that I was obliged to use that ability so as to not take advantage of people who were less able.

          • margaret says:

            Great that he spoke of his own thoughts, values/ideals to you rather than for example just let a school inculcate so-called Christian values as so many parents do by paying for private school education, sending their sons/daughters to schools which are simply expensive clubs joined in order to make the ‘right’ (and they usually are) connections.

      • spangled drongo says:

        Poor ol’ blithering trip thinks that everyone is equal under Marxism ideology, but just not men.

        Even the B-I-C is admitting that free markets are valid.

        But then feminism is everyone’s friend. Don’t question the narrative. Misandry just doesn’t exist. Aw, well, maybe a little bit.

        Seen the Red Pill yet, trip?

        And which wave are you?

        • margaret says:

          “a noble, necessary movement.”
          That’s the wave we surf, Spangledmonarchistus. Have YOU seen The Red Pill? If so would like your review.

  • margaret says:

    I don’t want an off – topic thread for Margaret et al anymore – thanks for the honour.

    • spangled drongo says:

      But I noticed you are responsible for over one third of the comments.

      Typical 3rd waver.

      • margaret says:

        Tee hee, one more comment than you! Two now. But still waiting for your review of The Red Pill.

        • spangled drongo says:

          Margiluv, you are not with it.

          I didn’t say I didn’t want an off-topic thread.

          And it’s you fems that need to see the Red Pill.

  • spangled drongo says:

    Cory Bernardi on the new education funding bill [Conski] which has just passed the Senate:

    “Importantly, the cash splash thrown at the education system has no accountability. It isn’t dependent on schools improving educational outcomes for students or improving our plummeting international rankings in terms of science or math.

    It is simply a guarantee of more money regardless of performance. There isn’t even a requirement that it be spent on education – it can be applied to whatever scheme, agenda or bureaucracy a school decides. For those who have fought so hard against the indoctrination of our children through programs like the misnamed Safe Schools initiative, I say “look out, you ain’t seen nothing yet!” If this Bill passes it will literally be an education free-for-all dominated by the militant Australian Education Union and ideological warriors in State and Federal education departments. Our children deserve better. They deserve an education that will equip them with the foundational learning critical to our future. The ability to be literate and numerate to an internationally competitive standard. An understanding of the importance of the underpinnings of Western Civilisation, our history, democratic traditions and the need to defend them all to conserve our way of life.

    I respectfully submit that gender theory, climate change alarmism and the black armband view of Australian history can be omitted from the curriculum in favour of reading, writing, maths and science.”

    Cory for PM!!!

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