In this essay I want to return to the US Presidential election, not because I think there was anything suss in the outcome, though there might have been (see Time magazine’s expose here), but to point out some singular features of the result, and what they might mean both in the USA and here.
First, the numbers. No one in American history has won more votes than Donald Trump did last November, save for Joe Biden, who won over 81 million popular votes, just over 51 per cent of the votes cast. Donald Trump won 74 million, or not quite 47 per cent of the votes cast. So while Biden scored highly in electoral college votes, in popular vote terms his rival did astonishingly well. One reason for the large vote was a large turnout. Nearly 160 million turned out to vote, the largest turnout in American history. But note again, the turnout was not obviously the gathering of the sensible Americans to sweep away Trump and ‘Trumpism’ (whatever that is). It can also look like the flocking to the polls of those who wanted Trump to continue and to defend what he had done. So what was going on?
My suggestion is that there may be an emerging third force in American politics, which I’ll call ‘T’ for want of anything better. It exists because both the Democratic and Republican parties are losing ground. Why are they losing ground? Again (I think), it is because, on the Democratic side that party is seen as captive of an urban elite, while the Republicans are seen as weak-kneed and unable to counter the urban elite. Now ‘T’ is seen as strong and tough and effective. As I’ve said in earlier essays, one of our problems is that we really only get the anti-Trump perspective in our mass media. How can Australians come to understand the 75 million who voted for a man pictured as a buffoon, a crazy and a philanderer? Plainly, they didn’t see him that way. What did they see?
My response is that either they didn’t think those aspects were important, or they saw other things as much more important. I plump for the second option. They don’t like what the Democrats currently stand for, and they don’t see the Republicans as able to stand up against those things What are those things? There is a strong socialist tendency coming from Bernie Sanders that is unusual in American politics. The Democrats see climate change as tremendously important, but a lot of Americans don’t. The Democrats want to extend social welfare to everyone. That too is against the historic American culture of one’s being responsible for oneself. Oh, and guns.
Let me jump to our own country, where I see something rather similar going on, not that we have a ‘T’. But we do have an uneasiness about our current political division. Public opinion polls suggest that the electorate is evenly divided between the Coalition and Labor, which may mean that there is considerable dissatisfaction with both sides. The Coalition is having to deal with some intransigently conservative MPs, like Craig Kelly. Kevin Andrews has lost his pre-selection. On the face of it, the Coalition is trying to move left to counter Labor, and to appease the urban elite, especially the young, who see socialism as a viable way forward and who also think climate change is truly important. It may be quite soon when our Prime Minister opts for zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. That will be a strategic move, since he has been avoiding doing so since he attained office, but it is suggestive of the problems in our own political division.
Labor is caught, because Climate Change Action, for example, threatens the livelihood of miners, however attractive it is to the young elite in the big cities. The numbers are in the cities, of course, but Labor has to be able to appeal to all Australians, and as we have seen in Queensland, that just isn’t possible where jobs are involved. Something else has happened since the 1990s, and that is the extent to which people, especially the young, have been educated to the point where they think their own opinions and values are as good as anyone else’s and a lot better than most. That would be true in the US as well, though the process would have started a generation earlier. On Climate Change Action there has been a shift towards concern since 2013, with about 60 per cent in both the USA and Australia seeing it as a concern, compared with only 40 per cent eight years ago. The data are from Pew research, and I do trust it.
In both countries, the more education you have had the more likely you are to see it as a concern, and there is an obvious division on party lines, the Democrats and Labor really concerned, the Republicans and the Liberals/Nationals much less so. I’ll add another factor. Some 94 per cent of the Australian population live in urban conglomerates above 100,000 people. The urban culture has been growing, and the rural and regional has been shrinking. So it makes sense for ScoMo to lean towards the young urbanites. The USA is different, because there a much larger proportion of people live outside big cities. Trump played to them, and indeed he won the majority of states outside those with big cities.
Does that solve the puzzle? I don’t think so. There is the big fat fact that Trump got the vote of 75 million Americans, who did not heed the anguished cries from the Democrats that America was in danger. They didn’t think so at all. If anything they might have thought that America was in danger from ‘the swamp’ — the Washington bubble and the big cities. To me that tremendous vote says something about what is happening in the US. Is the same thing happening in Australia? On the face of it, no, because we don’t have a Donald Trump. Yet I feel that some of the same unease is here too. What causes it? I’ve set out some of the possible causes, but have no way of testing them.
We have had the same sort of party system here since 1910. It has been described as a system where conservative governments implement Labor policies, to general satisfaction. It survived, indeed prospered, because parents handed down their partisanship to their children, who did the same later on to their children. Has that process ceased? I think it has, or at least greatly diminished. And that leads to the possibility of a third force emerging, supported by those who don’t think the old parties offer much to them. At the moment it lacks a leader. Donald Trump filled that part in the USA.
Where would we get one here?
Join the discussion 117 Comments
Thank yo for the sensible post. I was interested to hear your comments on the election from a mathemathical/statiscal point of view. To me the numbers show fraud. The 140,000 consecutive votes in Michigan, there was the statistical test on the Dominion voting which found that the count raised concerns about fraud (I forgot the name of this test).
The attack on Mr Trump was unbeleivable.
A dead dog with one eye could see that the election was rigged. Not only in the way the Left have bragged about it in Time, but in 1500 sworn affidavits of fraud, the sworn affidavit in Italy demonstrating the method used to swap the votes, and in the program put together by Mike Lindell [https://www.oann.com/absoluteproof/].
Especially following the leaked remarks of a Chinese academic bragging that the CCP has led the USA by the nose for years….until Trump. [https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6214854915001]
The cold hard truth of the matter is that the CCP have infiltrated Western governments to the extent that it is reversible is at best unlikely and at worst impossible.
Chinese influence in Canada went right to the Prime Minister’s Office (Operation Sidewinder). There can be no doubt of the CCP influence in Australia’s tiers of power.
Joe McCarthy is vindicated. The Communist coup is complete. Totalitarian Fascism can only get worse from here.
It’s interesting that Trump got around 50% of the votes in the USA when reports in media outside the USA are almost always highly negative towards him.
I put this down to the foreign media relying heavily on reports from the notoriously left-leaning US mainstream media either directly or indirectly. In some instances reports from US media are republished in other countries with minimal changes. In other instances those foreign countries rely on information from the US media to construct their own reports, this happening either in the foreign country or in the USA where foreign correspondents source their information from the mainstream media there.
It looks like people in the US, either through direct experience or access to a wider range of media views, are able to see more clearly exactly what Trump’s achievements have been.
In recent weeks they’ve also been able to access less biased reports about what really went on with the election. I would not be surprised if some took the law into their own hands. Of course if they did that the mainstream media in the US and other countries would try to label them as unhinged rather than well-informed.
Western Civilisation is in peril, obviously in the USA, but here, in New Zealand, in the UK, and in Canada. This is from a Prague newspaper regarding the situation in Canada.
This Prague newspaper quote hits the nail on the head!
Extraordinarily accurate analysis from a foreign country. God help Canada . Some people have the vocabulary to sum up things in a way that you can quickly understand them. This quote came from the Czech Republic. Someone over there has it figured out. It was translated into English from an article in a Prague newspaper.
“The danger to Canada is not Justin Trudeau, but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with being Prime Minister. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of a Trudeau government than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their prime minister. The problem is much deeper and far more serious than Trudeau, who is a mere symptom of what ails Canada. Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince. The country can survive a Trudeau, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools, such as those who made him their
Where would we get a leader such as Trump here? Perhaps Mark Latham? He certainly seems to have a broader understanding of reality than most other Australian politicians, of all the major parties.
Surely you must mean Craig Kelly not Latham.
Why? Do you support Kelly?
No way, I just assumed he would definitely be your kind of guy. IOW I was being facetious, as everything, everyone, here appears so extreme right wing.
Perhaps you should stereotype people less, and learn a bit of nuance?
But Kelly is your kind of climate guy! University of Google trained etc.
“But Kelly is your kind of climate guy! University of Google trained etc.” by Stu
That’s such a dull comment. Always wait 5 minutes before posting, you might think better of it. BTW this is now posted 10 minutes after writing.
I do have a tertiary education. Are you suggesting Kelly (the subject of my post) does also? My information says he does not. Further he espouses crackpot ideas on major health issues as well as climate. It appears Morrison has told him to button the Covid stuff. Back to you genius.
Why are you such an intellectual snob?
What was your tertiary education in? Binary thinking?
“But Kelly is your kind of climate guy! University of Google trained etc.”
PS, still stereotyping I note.
BJ, you seem to have got that totally ass about. You are the greater twister and misquoter of words. It was Allesandro going on about his degrees. My response was no more than the reciprocal to his silly argument. And it is hardly intellectual snobbery to point out the lack of credibility for the Kelly comments. Tanya Plibersek did a great job of showing up his weak position. And as I said, presumably you at least support his climate position if not his Covid therapy ideas.
“And it is hardly intellectual snobbery to point out the lack of credibility for the Kelly comments.”
It is, however, intellectual snobbery to highlight your tertiary qualifications, which you have previously said are not in science, while criticising someone who lacks such qualifications for having a different opinion to you on a scientific matter.
Do try not to emphasise your intellectual arrogance.
BJ, so you think Kelly is right on the ball with his pronouncements. Great, says it all really.
At least I have tertiary qualifications in science to support my opinions on climate change. What are yours in?
BJ, I don’t offer climate science opinions, I do refer to what climate scientists put forward. Their knowledge is more persuasive than your pronouncements. A benefit of a good education is the ability to evaluate evidence and argument. Don’t come the high and mighty. And you still have not said if you think Kelly has strong evidence to support his opinions.
And also BJ you wrote “ At least I have tertiary qualifications in science to support my opinions on climate change”. What is that if not intellectual snobbery? And do you question Don’s opinions on climate change because he lacks a degree in the physical sciences, let alone climate science? I hope not.
Even by your standards, pathetic.
I thought that by now, even you would have advanced past science by opinion poll, but apparently not.
BTW, perhaps you can direct us to the experimental results or empirical measurements that your climate scientists have cited to prove (without resorting to computer models) that the human effect on climate now outweighs the natural effect. You know, the evidence that negates the Null Hypothesis.
PS, there is a difference between intellectual snobbery (Stu has a tertiary education and Craig Kelly doesn’t, therefore Stu’s opinion is valid) and comparing my actual qualifications in science with your unspecified non-science qualification. Don’t be shy, tell us what your degree is.
BJ “ I thought that by now, even you would have advanced past science by opinion poll, but apparently not.”. You really can’t help yourself, can you? Where did that come from in the current exchange? Or is that a back arsed way of paying out the media attention on Kelly? Just throw up some shit and divert attention from yourself. Pitiful really.
And my reference to education was in response to the post by your mate, nothing more. And if you can’t follow the logic of my response to his and your posts it perhaps shows you are losing your grip, and certainly shows you are disingenuous.
Time we called a halt to this silliness, give it a break, or do you always need the last word? If so go for it old man.
“And my reference to education was in response to the post by your mate, nothing more”
So it was entirely unrelated to your reference to Kelly going to -what was your phrase? Oh, yes, the University of Google. Snob.
Where do we get a ‘leader’? Wrong question. We first need a movement of citizens to articulate a shared concern about the state of democracy, and then, to search for a viable means of reforming it. Waiting for a leader to do this for us is a recipe for inertia and stalemate. Our system cannot produce a ‘leader’ like Trump – the party preselection processes are closed to the public here, which ensures only party officials can triumph through them. Reformers have to come from outside our party system, and the first requirement for this is an organised movement.
Australians, however, are still hoping that a Saviour will appear. For as long as this fantasy persists, the current stalemate and inertia will continue. When that hope fades, as it inevitably will, the hard work of organising ourselves to be the self-governing democracy we think we are, starts.
Where would we get a “T” here?
God forbid that we would get one. I would much prefer someone from the centre, who would unite us instead of dividing us. Contrary to what is happening in the U.S.
Clive Palmer gave it a go with his “Make Australia Great” campaign last election. I think Trump should sue Palmer for appropriating his slogans. Now that would be funny Trump ligating against one of Australia’s great litigators!
Palmer fell flat on his face, but his preference deals with the the Lib/ Nats have been cited as one of the reasons Labor lost Qld in the last Federal Election. Thankfully most of the Australian public realised he was Trump lite.
Then there is “One Nation” the party of the battlers who are disgruntled with Labor siding with the Woke elite of the cities. Definitely a sizeable demographic. Unfortunately Pauline is not that charismatic, but she gets high marks from me for trying. Perhaps Latham might have more appeal? One of the things One Nation hasn’t grasped is that many of its supporters are not on the side of laissez faire capitalism. A good example of this was the last Qld election, with Pauline crowing about opening the State borders and advocating other Trump style personal freedoms. Bugger freedoms, most Queenslanders were more than happy with the way Palaszczuk was handling the Covid crisis, and the One Nation vote collapsed.
I would like to think we could get a populist leader, an intelligent populist from either of the major parties, governing for the bulk of Australians and not pandering to extremists in their respective parties. I think we did have someone like this in Australia, but unfortunately his successor headed down the elitist track. No I’m not thinking of Abbott.
And Craig Kelly……. Craig who?
That’s such a dull comment. Always wait 5 minutes before posting, you might think better of it. BTW this is posted 5 minutes after writing.
All good for 5 minutes but not good for location of post. I will attempt to put this where it belongs right below Stu’s University of Google post!!
Why did 75 million for Trump? Obviously a certain percentage were Trump cultists that believed every “word” or lie he twittered. I’d like to think they are a noisy uneducated minority, but I have a feeling there are a lot out there. Cults suck in a lot of intelligent people, particularly when the leader says words that resonate with followers.
Then there were the social conservatives, the religious and those happy with the status quo, they probably didn’t like Trumps persona, but no way were they going to vote for the Democrats who were liable to implement progressive social agendas.
Similarly the pro business and freedom types were traditionally Republican voters who wanted minimalist and low taxing Government. Even if Trump was the devil incarnate, there is no way they were going to be told by the Democrats where their money should be going.
I would be interested to know the break up of these groups? One thing is for sure Biden didn’t win this election, it was Trump who lost. It was the way he handled Covid that was the tipping point. Americans love freedom, but I think they like their loved ones even more.
” I’d like to think they are a noisy uneducated minority.” Some might think with reasonable cause that that’s quite an elitist comment. I consider myself well educated with undergraduate and graduate degrees during a time when education had rigour and you really had to excel unlike the last 20 or more years. I greatly respect those who have not enjoyed the benefits of extensive education but exhibit profound common sense, a value that many well educated people seem to drop or forget on their journey. How can we expect respect if we are unprepared to give it?
Totally agree, bad choice of words by me. Perhaps I could say “small minded minority obsessed with celebrity”, but again that is being disrespectful to a group who probably don’t know any better. It is very hard not to respect people when they exhibit antisocial behaviour, whether they be ordinary folk attacking the seat of Government or highly educated people wanting to defund the police.
“It is very hard not to respect people when they exhibit antisocial behaviour, whether they be ordinary folk attacking the seat of Government or highly educated people wanting to defund the police.”
Read again carefully please.
Thanks BJ, even with the 5 minute rule I missed that. “Not” should NOT be in that that sentence.
The Left is universally mistaken as to Craig Kelly’s claims. Contrary to the drivel one reads in teh media, Craig has done nothing more nor less that comment on the results of numerous studies and the opinions of people in the know.
As for the multitude of dcures for the Kabuke sickness “Covid 19”, the most recent to be revealed is Pulmicort. Another is a mega dose of vitamin C.
The WA Liberals have now gone barking mad on steroids.
Their new crazy leader wants net ZERO emissions by 2030, while the Labor Premier sounds like Craig Kelly at his best and on a very good day.
And the most highly qualified nuclear physicist ex FED Liberal Dennis Jensen will vote Labor before the Liberals in the very same clueless Liberal Leaders electorate.
You couldn’t make this stuff up and Scott Morrison must be smacking his chops and thanking the Labor Premier for writing and endorsing the material for his upcoming FED election.
Biden and the DEMS should make the most of their recent win, because it won’t take long before the electorate starts to wake up and feels the pain.
Biden will do his best to reduce their use of fossil fuels and make the USA dependent AGAIN on foreign supplies when the dirty, unreliable S&W crap hits the fan.
Meanwhile Putin will happily fill the gap and he and the Middle east etc must be laughing their heads off. I think by the mid term elections there could be a big swing back to the Republicans. Time will tell.
“I think by the mid term elections there could be a big swing back to the Republicans. Time will tell.”
That won’t help unless the corruption is removed from the US electoral system.
“ That won’t help unless the corruption is removed from the US electoral system.”. What do you have in mind BJ? Is it the blatant restriction of voting rights in many Red states or the gerrymandering of electoral boundaries in states like Georgia, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin?
Did you see McConnell just concede that the stolen election meme was a lie and that Trump is morally responsible for the Capitol riot and it’s aftermath. It will be interesting to see how the Sky chaps handle that shift of position.
Voter fraud was identified in many states, although the ‘establishment’ refused to acknowledge it, and it may not have been sufficient to swing the election, though this will never be known. If Trump was ‘morally’ responsible for the Capitol riot, why were Pelosi or Harris not ‘morally’ responsible for the country-wide riots of 2020, of which both tacitly encouraged and approved?
Re the idea that there was fraud, but not enough to swing the election, this is the “I’ll only put it in a little bit” excuse. The whole idea of electoral fraud is to win, claiming that a bit was happening, but not enough, is missing that important point.
That is a big call. Even if Pelosi was tacitly encouraging any riots in 2020 (which few will concede is the case) it is a big call to equate that with storming of the capitol. And as I wrote, even McConnell concedes Trump was responsible “practically and morally” of encouraging the mob to overturn the election counting in the chamber. As for the voter fraud, all the examples claimed since the election have been shown to have no substance. Just look at the thorough accounting for all the claims in Georgia. Virtually zero cases found.
This is really quite a comical statement. Over a whole year, virtually no-body raised a finger to control the burning and looting, resulting hundreds of deaths and billions of dollars of damage, yet a staged riot at the Capitol building resulted in 25,000 troops being sent to DC. Phrase of the day, “C’mon man”.
I would also note that if there was to be an insurrection in the US, it would not be led by some half-dressed clown waving a spear.
I am not going to give you much detail, I have a life to lead.
Start with validation of electoral rolls. It is farcical that some counties have more names on their rolls than eligible voters who live there. Follow with rigourous validation of signatures on postal ballots. Then a set of enforceable rules on scrutineering. No scrutineers present and actually able to observe, no counting.
Then get rid of voting machines in any form. You might not be aware that Demonrats have been complaining about them for years.
Both sides are guilty of these things.
Like a busload of lawyers going over a cliff, collectively these would be a good start.
PS, gerrymandering is common in all states, and, like Tamany Hall, was originally a Demonrat invention.
PPS, I am astonished that you seem unaware of the concept of RINOs.
PPPS, unlike you, I don’t watch Sky.
At least you concede it is ‘both” sides problem. The best thing they could do, but won’t, is create a national office like our AEO to run things. Secondly pass a new voting rights Act.
Are you saying McConnell is a RINO? Wow.
Ouch, back to Tamany Hall. Ten points to you for knowing about the organisation.
“PPPS, unlike you, I don’t watch Sky.“. You have no need to, your views and politics seem to perfectly align, maybe they have been reading your mail. You are their target demographic, they would be disappointed to learn you do not follow them.
“Ouch, back to Tamany Hall. Ten points to you for knowing about the organisation.”
Some of ue are more broadly educated than others. Some of us, for example, are aware that US elections are organised at state and county level, not federally. We also know that a Voting Rights section already exists in the DoJ.
“ Some of ue are more broadly educated than others. Some of us, for example, are aware that US elections are organised at state and county level, not federally”. Are you a slow reader or something. Clearly I know that, which is why I suggested the need for, but the unlikely adoption, of a national approach to the issue.
Why suggest something that even you concede is unlikely to occur? Are you a masochist?
No comment on my suggestions? Too practical for your liking?
But do carry on beating your head against a brick wall.
PS, re McConnell, are you aware if his Chinese connection? That might explain some of his actions.
Are you referring to the Qanon crap or his wife with Chinese connections. She actually is of Taiwanese origins which may work against your implications. Oh and she was a member of the Trump cabinet.
His wife has deep mainland Chinese family connections. That she became Transportation Secretary is probably a price Trump had to pay for McConnell’s cooperation in the Senate.
First, if you genuinely believe that there was absolutley no fraud, you are on another planet. Second, I saw a report on Instapundit last week that, at thst time, 22 cases had actually been considered in court, 15 of which were upheld. Broaden your reading.
Oh come now. With 156 million votes cast of course there are going to be individuals who attempt some breach of the law. But it is so far only found to be individuals, probably acting on their own, and interestingly mainly republicans trying to vote twice or use a dead name etc. Not significant in overall terms regarding the election result. And no evidence of systemic state wide fraud to manipulate the election result as claimed by Guiliani et al. Try again old chap. Meantime the degree of gerrymandering is indicated by the number of states where the popular vote elects a Democratic governor but a grossly over represented majority state republican congress. Shades of Queensland under Bjelke.
See my response to Bryan, you are offering the “I’ll only put it in a little way” defence. Very weak.
Also good to see you also acknowledge earlier that electoral fraud in the US is bipartisan, though you only ever criticise Republicans.
Electoral fraud on a scale to change the outcome of an election is rare outside totalitarian regimes. And the small scale stuff is probably countervailing. On the other hand efforts to achieve voter suppression (see the examples of removing drop boxes, closing polling places, restricting voter registration) are rampant in the Red parts of USA. But you stick with your pre conceptions, which reveal a lot.
Voter suppression is another technique perfected by the Demonrats. See people like George Wallace and other southern Demonrats within your lifetime and mine. See also Jim Crow.
Your pre-conceptions also reveal a lot about you. Perhaps you should remove the log from your own eye before commenting on the splinter in someone else’s?
“Electoral fraud on a scale to change the outcome of an election is rare outside totalitarian regimes”
So why do people do it? Perhaps because it only needs to be focused on a few key areas, not nationwide?
Stick to climate change!
On the subject of the impeachment.
“ It’s not half against half. It’s a clear American majority—including a sizable part of the Republican Senate caucus—against a minority. And even many of the senators who voted to acquit went on record to condemn Trump as an outlaw and a seditionist.
Again and again, the Trumpists lost key votes. Five Republican senators and then six rejected the argument that the Senate lacked jurisdiction. Five Republican senators rejected the vote against witnesses. The accusing majority consistently stuck together. The condoning minority repeatedly splintered.
The 57 votes against Trump silence any complaint that he was condemned on some partisan basis or by some procedural unfairness. It crushes his truculent lawyers’ claim that the argument against Trump was mere chicanery. The senators who voted to acquit are the ones likely to justify their decision on some strained, narrow, technical ground. The number who truly believed Trump innocent of the charges brought against him is surely smaller than the 43 who voted to acquit. Statements by senators such as Mitch McConnell and Rob Portman show that their votes did not match their thoughts.”
David Frum. – the Atlantic.
And I should have added that the 50 Democrat Senators represent 50 million more voters than the Republicans. Something to do with small states (republican) having the same representation of two Senators as the large states with much larger populations. We have a similar twist in Australia due to our constitution.
Stu, your comment was stuck in moderation because you signed yourself as ‘Sru’.
Are you not familiar with the reasoning behind those two similar positions? Something to do with preventing a few large states dominating in a federation?
Perhaps you really should stick to climate change.
BJ you simple fellow there you go stating the bleeding obvious again. We know why it was set up that way. Look outside the dots. The question in modern day America is whether that is still justifiable now that the largest four states account for one third of the population. At the time the constitution was written the difference between the largest and smallest colonies was much less stark. Our situation is not as bad but is exacerbated by the continuing effect of the nexus between the Reps and the Senate. Such a pity that referendum was defeated. To put it more simply it is ludicrous that Tasmania has 5 reps and 12 Senators. But I am confident you will think that is just fine.
Nice to see you qualify your earlier outright opposition to equal numbers of senators.
In both the US and here, I think that the growing prepinderance of a small group of states reinforces that position.
Again you are resorting to stereotyping, it really is ingrained in your psyche. Sorry to disappoint you, but I also regret the retention of the bexus between the Reps and the Senate. Twelve senators is too many for any state, particularly Tasmania. However, it does have good reason to be concerned about being ganged up on by larger states.
Yes, the statements by Mitch McConnell and Rob Portman show that their votes did not match their thoughts. They knew that if there had been no Trump, the Capitol would not have been smashed by those trumpies, ignorant as to what popular votes mean and people killed.
Why do trumpy idiots claim ” 22 cases had actually been considered in court, 15 of which were upheld.” with no evidence when the facts are;
Your link is dated 6 November. My reference was to a report within the last two weeks.
Why do Demonrat tools avoid up to date data? Afraid their pre-conceptions might be challenged by new data?
Boambee has no evidence, and cannot face the facts;
So why do trumpy idiots claim ” 22 cases had actually been considered in court, 15 of which were upheld.” with no evidence when the facts are;
So your mind ceased to operate (if it ever did) on 6 November 2020? Perhaps there have been other events since then which you missed, or simply don’t want to know about? But you keep your head firmly buried in the sand, so your pre-conceptions are not challenged.
Still no evidence for trumpy statements….
Surely a scientific genius like you is capable of research. Try the Instapundit blog. I am not going to waste my time digging something up that you will automatically reject as “denialism” without reading it, as is your usual practice.
trumpy got no evidence …. all just fake news, lies, fibs, and fantasy.
“trumpy got no evidence …. all just fake news, lies, fibs, and fantasy.”
What does that remind you of, blith?
When it comes to “no evidence”, nobody beats you true believers:
“Kerry, a climate change ideologue on par with Al Gore, began his speech with the requisite fearmongering, “The stakes on climate change just simply couldn’t be any higher than they are right now. It is existential. We use that word too easily, and we throw it away,” said Kerry.”
Contrary to what you appear to think, I am not one of your unfortunate research assistants. You continue to offer nothing better that information more than 3 months old to support, while being either (or both of) too ignorant or arrogant to look up more recent information which I mentioned.
Suck it up.
Chrissy not as smart as he thinks he is? Reduced to “Nyah, nyah, nyah, I can’t hear you” as a response.
Dry your eyes, and have a nice cup of tea.
Still no evidence … so why mention dry eyes and cup of tea?
Are you embarrassed having been exposed as an incompetent?
Are you embarrassed at being exposed as having provided outdated information, and being too incompetent to do simple research tasks?
Still no evidence, why are you squirming around so much trying all manner of diversions.
Why do trumpy idiots claim ” 22 cases had actually been considered in court, 15 of which were upheld.” with no evidence ????
Which 22 cases???? Which wee upheld ?????
Why not apologise if you cannot demonstrate that this is not trumped-up fake news????
Please no more silly diversions.
There was nothing wrong with the US electoral system – so the tears and teas are all yours.
BJ you’re wasting your time with our blog donkeys who seem to have zip commonsense to limit their wild ideas.
Don’t forget how the DEMS were happy to endorse all the anarchy /bashings/killings/ burning/ etc right across the USA for month after month last year and only eased off as NOV 3rd loomed on the horizon.
Yes Trump was a fool IMHO, but the stupidity and mindless thuggery on Capital hill was over in just a few hours and yet the DEMS strongly endorsed the BLM, Antifa etc violence across the USA for months on end.
Perhaps the Biden fool and the DEMS would also support one of the NATO chief’s ideas of Solar powered tanks to take on the China and Russian diesel powered variety?
Jo Nova counts some of the ways this would not be a good idea and Willis looks at the data/ evidence behind this co2 emissions saving idea.
“….. the DEMS strongly endorsed the BLM, Antifa etc violence across the USA for months on end.” Rubbish. They supported the cause of BLM but never endorsed violence, much of which was in fact perpetrated on the BLM protesters. As for Antifa you should look what the term covers rather than just parroting the pejorative words of a few in the media, plus Trump of course. We contributed to a major war in support of Antifa ideals from 1939-45. Presumably you are opposed to the idea behind BLM.
Antifa would be more correctly Ante-fa, as their actions are fascist in nature.
There is no Antifa organisation in USA. It is simply a term to describe a range of groups who share some values against right wing violence. But it is a useful metaphor for right wing thinkers and media to propagate. The only fascists are on the right, check the history. Meantime the correlation of climate science ignorance and right wing politics is reinforced.
“There is no Antifa organisation in USA. It is simply a term to describe a range of groups who share some values against right wing violence”
Oh yes, “Just an idea”, as Creepy Joe said. Sure Stu, keep believing.
“The only fascists are on the right, check the history”
Let’s go to an expert on the subject, Benito Mussolini, who described fascism as a system in which there was: “Everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state”. Doesn’t sound much like the right wing position.
But what would Mussolini, a socialist firebrand before WW I, know?
Bjorn Lomborg checks out more of the Binden + DEM’S idiocy and the TOTAL waste of endless TRILLIONS of $ for a very definite ZERO return on their so called investment.
Solar powered tanks and their other lunacies appear to come from the ravings of a Marvel comic book idea?
For the lefty true believers here.
Some good background on just how the recent US election was carried out:
Written by Tony Thomas quoting Jo Nova in a far right rag, great. Jo is usually better at checking the facts.
Here is what Sterling (a Republican election official in Georgia) said about the bull shit spewed out by the Trump team after the election.
“ A leak occurred in the State Farm Arena on Election Night, which slowed down vote counts, and looking to be fully transparent, Georgia officials invited local media outlets to report on the incident. Giuliani then took roughly 90 seconds of an out-of-context video, which was filmed amid the leak fiasco, to push a false claim.
“7:00 in the morning or so, where you have essentially the, I don’t know what they call it, the drying Zamboni, is driving around on the carpet cleaning it all up. Then at 8:23, you see a woman bringing in the table in question that has been the point of Mr. Giuliani’s 90-second clip. She’s pulling it with one hand and sets it down. There’s nothing underneath it. Okay?” Sterling said. “Then you can fast forward to later in the day, about 9:45 or so. Everybody there, there are two groups of people there, there’s cutters and there are scanners. What happened was the cutters began putting their stuff away because everybody was under the impression they were going to get home.”
Essentially, boxes that had been voted but not counted, due to the leak, were put away and processed later in front of monitors.
After explaining the incident for at least second time, Sterling revealed his intense frustration for the president.
“And I will admit when I listened to the audio of the phone call and the president brought that up again and I heard it on radio ad again today, I wanted to scream, well, I did scream at the computer and I screamed in my car at the radio talking about this because this has been thoroughly debunked,” he said.
Sterling then blasted Trump and his legal team, which includes Giuliani, for repeatedly pushing baseless claims and intentionally misleading voters.
“The president’s legal team had the entire tape, they watched the entire tape, and from our point of view, intentionally misled the state’s senate, voters and the people of the United States about this,” Sterling said of the full surveillance footage. “It was intentional. It was obvious. And anybody watching this knows that.”
The official then listed and debunked several other claims of election irregularities, shutting down the idea that thousands of teenagers, dead people, and unregistered citizens voted.
“That audit showed that there was no problems with the machine scanning,” he said of the hand recount. “If somebody took a stack of ballots and scanned them multiple times, you would have a lot of votes with no corresponding ballots. So let’s go over the numbers one more time. Statewide, it was for the sheer number of ballots, they were off by .1035 percent. For the margin, they were off by .0099 percent, Which shows that the machines scanned properly, counties did a great job of following these batches and doing the hand count properly. Appropriately. With scrutiny and with observers.”
But of course if one of your core principles is anti totalitarianism (Quadrant) it is a fair bet you lean well to the right and would be offended by anything that claimed to be anti fascist.
Time for you, and Nova, to move on, accept the election was perhaps the cleanest for a long time. Or of course stick with the obvious underlying crazy idea that the Democrats pulled off the most amazing heist in a handful of Republican run states, while simultaneously failing to win more house seats and take firmer control of the Senate. Almost paranormal eh.
Wake up stu.
Even Time Magazine admits Trump was right about the Big Corporate-Government conspiracy working against him and that it was a conspiracy between Big Gov and Corporate Giants to take the election.
And the fact that you are unaware that Fascists, like all you lefties, are socialists, demonstrates how well you grasp the true situation.
“ And the fact that you are unaware that Fascists, like all you lefties, are socialists”. Really! Please explain that extraordinary claim, which flies in the face of logic and history. I am also highly amused by your claim that corporate giants sought to bring Trump down. Take another Bex and calm down old chap. You are out in wild country now. Oh and BTW I am not a lefty, just a rational, voter.
And have you seen the growing movement to charge Trump with dereliction regarding Covid. Some reports lay half the US deaths at his feet. Quite an accomplishment.
“And have you seen the growing movement to charge Trump with dereliction regarding Covid. Some reports lay half the US deaths at his feet”
Can we assume that you remain ignorant of the New York state peoblem with deaths in nursing homes, including the recent controversy about the real numbers being concealed by state authorities?
You mean that you spruik Fascism yet you don’t know that Hitler’s Fascist organisation that he joined and became head of was the National Socialist German Workers’ Party, or the Nazi Party?
And if you were in any way “rational” you would have supplied some evidence by now to back your wild climate claims.
” I am also highly amused by your claim that corporate giants sought to bring Trump down. Take another Bex and calm down old chap.”
Perhaps you need the cup of tea old chap. From the infamous Time magazine article.
“There was a conspiracy unfolding behind the scenes, one that both curtailed the protests and coordinated the resistance from CEOs.”
The “conspiracy” (Time’s word) involved a “cabal” (Time again) that among other things “curtailed the protests” by Ante-fa, among others.
You really are dopey.
And the zinger.
“Both surprises were the result of an informal alliance between left-wing activists and business titans. The pact was formalized in a terse, little-noticed joint statement of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and AFL-CIO”
“Written by Tony Thomas quoting Jo Nova in a far right rag, great”
Not still attacking the messenger?
“accept the election was perhaps the cleanest for a long time”
Except for the hundreds of thousands of postal votes not subject to signature verification? Unlike the enthusiastic signature verification being implemented in the California recall petition?
Keep babbling on, someone might be convinced.
You have to protect voting rights against trumpy threats. And so it goes …
Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis has opened a criminal investigation into Donald Trump’s attempt to interfere with Georgia’s election, the New York Times reported on Wednesday. While the former president faces potential criminal liability in several states, including New York, now that he has left office, the Georgia probe may pose the most immediate threat. All available evidence suggests that prosecutors are considering charges that amount to election fraud—a felony offense under Georgia law, and the very crime that Trump claimed he sought to stop.
You might have missed the bit where the newly elected Senator Warnock (D-GA) is being investigated for electoral roll “irregularities”. If he is found guilty, will he be impeached and expelled from the Senate?
Yes, the organisation he resigned from a year ago was a bit late processing voter registrations. Nearly as bad as having 5 meetings with Putin, for which there is no record of the conversations. Makes you think there must be something in the idea that Putin holds some power over Trump. Truly scary at this level of government. But of course now that Russia is a far right dictatorship, not communist, no problem to our right wing friends.
One of the reforms I suggested for the US was rigourous validation of signatures on postal ballots. You made no comment on it.
I note, however, that in the recall petition for the California governor, all signatures are being rigourously checked. Perhaps the Demonrats there wish to prevent any action to – what was that word in the Time article – fortify the petition to ensure the proper result?
Nothing like skin in the game to encourage care, is there?
Regarding fraud in the election.
“ Like many Trump supporters, conservative donor Fred Eshelman awoke the day after the presidential election with the suspicion that something wasn’t right. His candidate’s apparent lead in key battleground states had evaporated overnight.?The next day, the North Carolina financier and his advisers reached out to a small conservative nonprofit group in Texas that was seeking to expose voter fraud. After a 20-minute talk with the group’s president, their first-ever conversation, Eshelman was sold.?“I’m in for 2,” he told the president of True the Vote, according to court documents and interviews with Eshelman and others.?“$200,000?” one of his advisers on the call asked.?“$2 million,” Eshelman responded.?Over the next 12 days, Eshelman came to regret his donation and to doubt conspiracy theories of rampant illegal voting, according to court records and interviews.?Now, he wants his money back.?The story behind the Eshelman donation — detailed in previously unreported court filings and exclusive interviews with those involved — provides new insights into the frenetic days after the election, when baseless claims led donors to give hundreds of millions of dollars to reverse President Biden’s victory.?Trump’s campaign and the Republican Party collected $255 million in two months, saying the money would support legal challenges to an election marred by fraud. Trump’s staunchest allies in Congress also raised money off those false allegations, as did pro-Trump lawyers seeking to overturn the election results — and even some of their witnesses.?True the Vote was one of several conservative “election integrity” groups that sought to press the case in court. Though its lawsuits drew less attention than those brought by the Trump campaign, True the Vote nonetheless sought to raise more than $7 million for its investigation of the 2020 election.?Documents that have surfaced in Eshelman’s litigation, along with interviews, show how True the Vote’s private assurances that it was on the cusp of revealing illegal election schemes repeatedly fizzled as the group’s focus shifted from one allegation to the next. The nonprofit sought to coordinate its efforts with a coalition of Trump’s allies, including Trump attorney Jay Sekulow and Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.), the documents show.?Eshelman has alleged in two lawsuits — one in federal court has been withdrawn and the other is ongoing in a Texas state court — that True the Vote did not spend his $2 million gift and a subsequent $500,000 donation as it said it would. Eshelman also alleges that True the Vote directed much of his money to people or businesses connected to the group’s president, Catherine Engelbrecht.”
I am astonished that someone like you, who seems obsessed with US politics, is not aware of the cottage industry over there which finds “principled Republicans” to spout Demonrat talking points on demand.
A good example is (was?) the Lincoln Project, which produced a series of anti-Trump ads in the run up to the election. After the election several of them suddenly remembered that they were actually unprincipled Demonrats, and formally changed registration.
It then got worse. It turned out that they were a bunch of grifters. Most of the donated money went into their salaries, or companies associated with their leadership.
Then it got even worse. One of the founders had engaged in workplace sexual harassment of employees. Other leaders knew about this well before the election, but suppressed the scandal, which has now become public.
Such are the types of people you promote.
PS, still nothing to say on signature verification?
Sometimes your naivety is astoundingly juvenile.
Did you see these words from Trump himself today? They show his misdirection. As he says, the House and Senate republicans actually did quite well. He somehow thinks that was down to his influence but does not explain how he then lost the Presidential bit. Hilarious.
In part he says “in 2020, I received the most votes of any sitting President in history, almost 75,000,000. Every incumbent Republican won for the first time in decades, and we flipped 15 seats, almost costing Nancy Pelosi her job. Republicans won majorities in 59 of the 98 partisan legislative chambers, and the Democrats failed to flip a single legislative chamber from red to blue.”
Makes you wonder what went wrong. The Republicans did so well, yet he did not. Either it is because he screwed up and lost popular support or somehow the Democrats pulled off the greatest con by flipping him in a handful of Republican run states while not bothering to complete the job and flip a few houses and seats. He just cannot accept that he was rejected. Classic narcissistic personality disorder symptom.
Note that his “nearly 75 million” was actually 74.2. He just can’t help telling lies. A big part of his credibility problem.
“Makes you wonder what went wrong. The Republicans did so well, yet he did not”
Already discussed weeks ago. The need for huge numbers of presidential votes in a very short time did not allow time to fill in the down ballot positions. The Demonrats could organise to cover the top position, but not the lower ones.
Rubbish. They had 4 years and were well set up. Prove the contrary position. And it will be interesting in 2022.
Actions such as changing signature certification for postal votes administratively (not legislatively, as is required) occurred last year, not 4 years ago, as did extensions of closing times.
I am intrigued, however, by your statement that “They had 4 years and were well set up.” Are you conceding that the Demonrats set the Big Steal up four years ago, for the presidential election, and will get the down ballots set up for next time? I could suggest some weaknesses in your claim, but perhaps you are the one who needs to prove yourself wrong?
Those Demonrats seeking to prosecute Trump for Kung Flu deaths might beware of getting matters like this presented by the defence.
“Andrew Cuomo – New York’s governor who was once hailed the king of the US Covid-19 response – was facing fresh calls for his removal from office on Friday after new allegations emerged that he and senior staff covered up the extent of the virus deaths in the state’s nursing homes.”
Circular firing squads can be very embarrassing.
Sorry Stu, I missed the second para.
“The New York Post said it obtained a leaked recording of the governor’s top aide, Melissa DeRosa, admitting to Democrats in private conversations this week that the administration withheld the true data because it feared the Department of Justice would use the figures to pursue complaints of state misconduct.”
Cuomo covering up deaths is different to Trump causing them through dereliction and poor management.
Stupid even by your standards. Trump provided both a hospital ship and a 3000 bed hospital to New York. Neither were used. But Cuomo still ordered that elderly Kung Flu cases remain in their nursing homes, rather than being moved to hospital. As in Victoria, the resultant spread caused many deaths, some 800 in Victoria and up to 15,000 in New York.
In both cases the cause was a combination of incompetence and criminal negligence by the respective state, not federal, administration. Your willingness to vover up the New York shambles (in two senses of the word) says much about your political obsessions
Is your “ vover” related at all to “cofefe”?
Thanks for confirming that you read the comment. “Vover” is a typo for cover. But you knew that, you just used it to squirm out of responding to the substantive issue, which is the “combination of incompetence and criminal negligence by the respective state, not federal, administration”.
Perhaps you could now respond, or can I assume that there is nothing that you can say to vover (deliberate typo) your combination of stupidity and political bias?
PS, that’s “covfefe”.
All a question of timing. NY was sort of first cab off the rank and a very densely settled place with plenty of poverty to boot. Not too surprising mistakes were made especially as the president kept saying the virus was not a problem and would go away by easter. Victoria is a different matter and appears not to have learned from experience elsewhere.
And remember that in USA the feds set the states against each other bidding for PPE etc which was a disaster. Trump should have invoked earlier and used more effectively the Defence Production Act.
Trump seems to claim the rapid production of vaccines is all down to him. That is not so. It was a global effort, with major input from Europe. Pfizer took no money from US government for development, only supply.
On the Oz scene perhaps things might have gone more smoothly if the Feds had taken control of inbound quarantine and not left it to the states. Border control is a federal matter, we even have biggus dikus Dutton as ultimate head of that function.
Yes Trump was a hindrance (that’s sarcasm). All he did was to provide significant facilities which New York declined to use.
The rest of your prattle about PPE etc is just flannel to hide your original stupidity. Cuomo was responsible, and is still trying to cover up the extent of the disaster his maladministration caused.
Willis Eschenbach looks at the sordid history of the Democrats over the last 170+ years. Unbelievable but true and he quotes some very accurate sources that real historians have always known about.
For example Thomas Sowell and his columns and quotes are always well worth reading. The two photos of the little girls and the captions are right on the money.