The May Off-Topic Thread

By May 19, 2017Other

This is intended for ideas and comments readers have that don’t fit neatly into the current topic for the week. I thank Margaret for reminding me!

 

Margaret May 19, 2017 at 10:08 am

Probably for the off topic thread —  https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.smh.com.au/comment/blunt-instrument/good-debt-and-the-myth-of-the-prudent-pinstriped-coalition

 

Join the discussion 121 Comments

  • margaret says:

    There IS a problem with old white males (it’s not derogatory, it’s a factual term), hanging on to positions of power and influence in Australia. It exists because when they were young white males in Australia they had little competition from young white females for the positions in the workforce they attained. It was a structure of society that enabled them to have a ‘helpmate’ – “for wives should always be lovers too, run to his arms the moment he comes home to you. Day after day there are girls at the office and men will always be men, don’t send him off with your hair still in curlers you may not see him again … ” L.O.L.
    Although the girls in the office are still there younger men accept that women are no longer necessarily tied to lowly positions, although, there is still a long way to go.
    Sexist men like Laws, who I recall calls his wife ‘the princess’ still abound. Look at Trump.
    I write this because of that pebble in my shoe alluded to by Peter W.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/18/the-john-laws-skirt-saga-why-do-successful-women-defend-sexism?

    • margaret says:

      It’s astounding now that we just sang along …

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mZbusN-n8rE

    • spangled drongo says:

      Ah, the good ol’ grauniad, hey marg? Such a truthful bunch. Here is one of their chosen comments that seems to be a straight out lie.

      “Guardian Pick

      I don’t care what Laws says about frocks. I care more about men dissing women’s capabilities. For example, of much more import but totally ignored was Clive James’s comment to ABC interviewer Philip Williams on ABC24 a few years ago that all women are incapable of playing high-level chess. Not a peep out of Williams in response to this damaging, misogynistic claim. And no feminists seemed to mind, because, you know, it was a charming old leftie speaking.”

      Clive didn’t say they’re incapable… he said if you want 50% of parliament as women you can, and as another example if you want 50% of chess champions as women you probably can’t.
      Given no female has ever challenged for the world chess champion title he could be right…

      • margaret says:

        Ghost of a Chance

        You see a man
        trying to think.
        You want to say
        to everything:
        Keep off! Give him room!
        But you only watch,
        terrified
        the old consolations
        will get him at last
        like a fish
        half-dead from flopping
        and almost crawling
        across the shingle,
        almost breathing
        the raw, agonizing
        air
        till a wave
        pulls it back blind into the triumphant
        sea.
        Adrienne Rich 1962

        • spangled drongo says:

          A pertinent, specific, non-sexist, evidence rich retort from marg [as usual]

          Do better, marg. We can all descend into that garbage.

      • margaret says:

        “Clive didn’t say they’re incapable… he said if you want 50% of parliament as women you can, and as another example if you want 50% of chess champions as women you probably can’t.
        Given no female has ever challenged for the world chess champion title he could be right…”
        “I learnt the moves once, my father taught me long ago, but I couldn’t be bothered to learn properly. I didn’t have the brain or the will for that kind of activity. It’s a man’s game, an autistic game.
        Don’t say I said that.”
        The narrator in Margaret Drabble’s The Pure Gold Baby

        • spangled drongo says:

          “It’s a man’s game, an autistic game.”

          Been rankling for over a week, hey marg?

          That’s riiight. If a woman can’t do what a man can there has to be good, confected justification.

          Or you could just “man” up and admit we are hard-wired differently.

        • margaret says:

          No, I just have an excellent memory and was reading that passage in a cafe …

          • margaret says:

            I have never said that men and women are ‘the same’. Men and men aren’t the ‘the same’ either. Plenty of men cannot play chess and no doubt many women are good at it.

          • spangled drongo says:

            “Plenty of men cannot play chess and no doubt many women are good at it.”

            If a woman wins a game of chess and nobody notices, is she autistic too?

          • margaret says:

            Quite possibly.

          • spangled drongo says:

            “I have never said that men and women are ‘the same’. Men and men aren’t the ‘the same’ either.”

            That’s not what we’re talking about.

          • margaret says:

            What ARE we talking about? Hard-wiring? Whatever you mean by that please explain.

          • spangled drongo says:

            “What ARE we talking about? Hard-wiring? Whatever you mean by that please explain.”

            Give us a break, marg. You fems never stop alluding to it.

            You just never say, “vive la difference”

            And you should.

          • margaret says:

            Should I? I can say it but it’s meaningless really. Vive la difference- I’ve actually never heard a woman say it – it’s a male expression for the benefit of maintaining the status quo in relationships and the workplace.

          • spangled drongo says:

            What you really mean, marg, is that only honest heteros say it, not fems.

            You really don’t expect to be treated any differently by a man than a woman?

            Where have you been all your life?

            I thought you were in a normal relationship.

          • spangled drongo says:

            ‘”Man” and “woman” are social-cultural categories, not biological ones.”

            RU serious?

            Ken UB Sodumb?

            Many indefinable differences constitute “la difference”. Always have, always will.

            You’ve been at the gender fluid again.

            And I thought you were a normal girl.

          • margaret says:

            Well I’m not a girl, but guess what I am normal and so are you. Vive les differences! It’s not binary oppositions.

          • spangled drongo says:

            “Well I’m not a girl,”

            And you’re not a boy either, so vive la difference, marg.

  • Neville says:

    Ken Stewart has updated the UAH V 6 temp data and all regions and graphs are shown. OZ has been cooling in the LT for more than half the record.
    Of course the SP region has been cooling slightly in the LT since DEC 1978.

    https://kenskingdom.wordpress.com/2017/05/19/the-pause-update-april-2017/

    • Chris Warren says:

      Neville

      Please stop posting this cherry-picking nonsense. Your statement “OZ has been cooling in the LT for more than half the record” is corrupt as this is nothing but a deliberate camouflage of cherry-picking from 1998. This has long been debunked.

      • Neville says:

        Chris I’ve tried to explain before that you are wrong and used IPCC AR5 to support my POV. If you can’t understand this I’m sorry , but I can’t be held responsible for your lack of understanding.

  • Ross says:

    That young firebrand Trump is doing well.

    • margaret says:

      And Keith Windscuttle …
      Asked to comment, Quadrant editor and prominent historian Keith Windschuttle, a former ABC board member, told Fairfax Media: “You’re talking bulls—, don’t call back.”
      Apropos revenge article for Q&A’s interesting discussion and absurdist comment by Krauss which was tragically followed by the Manchester terrorist attack but was then used for nefarious purposes by an editor of Quadrant, not Windscuttle.

      • spangled drongo says:

        How is ridiculing the stupid ABC’s Q&A claim that refrigerators kill more people than Islamic terrorists “nefarious”, marg?

        At least Windschuttle told ’em straight and Franklin pointed out the pathetic apologist attitude of this our public one-eyed media that is costing us our future.

        But what is also ill-making about these one-eyed true believers is their similar group-think to climate science.

          • spangled drongo says:

            That’s right marg, those owm at Quadrant have no right to be realistic about the future of this country.

            They should all agree with the Manchester bomber’s pals, aka our ABC luvvies who deliberately lie and promote policies that will have soldiers permanently on our streets as they do in England.

            How good will that be?

          • tripitaka says:

            The blog/sewer that is Catalaxy is the full-way house of the deranged.

            And Drongo, if it’s so bad here in Australia where everyone is turning left why not leave for a better place. The US under the Trump will be a righties paradise soon, won’t it? Why not go there?

          • Ross says:

            Top come back Drongo! Ouch!

        • tripitaka says:

          Oh dear Drongo has been reading ‘the Cat’, lol. There is a bit of head exploding happening there and the word is that anyone who censures Roger Franklin aka ‘areff’ is part of the “the vast herd of dimwitted leftoids (who) will make good cannon fodder for the next world war.” That quote is a comment I lifted from a stream of vile comments posted at that site earlier today.

          Lol according to the people Drongo reads, even Shari Markson is a dimwitted leftoid – she’s Shari Marxon. Hilarious eh?

          And now I see that the doyen of Zombie economics*, Sinclair Davidson, protector of the downtrodden conservative masses, who provides that blog space for those who imagine they are ‘normal’ to wail and moan about their lack of freedom while censoring anyone who wants to question their certainties, is sending out his nasty little pets on the attack.

          “Sinclair Davidson
          #2390651, posted on May 25, 2017 at 1:46 pm
          Herald Sun columnist Susie O’Brien is crapping on about how nasty and horrible Roger Franklin is – it would be nice if Cats went to share the love with her.”

          *How does this man who is so immature that he wears a horror mask as his avatar, remain employed by RMIT as an economics lecturer? Seriously… the man is a fool.

          And Drongo it is nefarious and stupid to try and use the fact that there was an exchange on Q and A about the number of deaths caused by refrigerators as opposed to terrorists to justify the unjustifiable sentiment that Franklin expressed.

          And about Manchester, you might want to take into account that, as that noted leftist 🙂 Alexander Downer pointed out this morning on the ABC, the people of Manchester have suffered terrorist bombings perpetrated by good Christians in the past so they know that terrorism is not a problem that is limited to Muslims.

          • Chris Warren says:

            Only brain dead Zombies and drongo’s read Catallaxy.

            Its a kindergarten for wannabe fascists.

          • spangled drongo says:

            Poor little trippy [awa other blitherers] have yet to grasp the fact that those who provide their own media at their own expense can say what they think but that huge media machine that is our ABC and financed by the taxpayer is mandated to be balanced in all its views.

            The irony that those who contribute net nothing get all the support while the lifters get zilch is also lost upon these same blitherers.

            And can you believe the mindlessness that rationalises that because we have solved past problems with considerable pain that is a good reason for doing it all over again.

            That is the definition insanity, trippy luv!

            Oh, the blithering stupid, it burns!

          • spangled drongo says:

            Only brain-dead zombies and soulless blitherers DON’T read the Cat.

            http://catallaxyfiles.com/2017/05/25/roger-moore-hiding-from-blofeld/

  • Neville says:

    The ABC admits that they avoid any sceptical studies or opinions that might derail their CAGW campaign. This juggernaut costs the taxpayer over 1,000 million $ a year and yet panders to a far left minority and ignores many hundreds of PR studies that support the sceptical point of view.

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/warmist-abc-admits-cant-list-any-sceptical-reports/news-story/4d0bdad0225ae1119469eaa23f36cb31

    • Chris Warren says:

      Neville

      Vain claims of others being wrong constitute a Freudian Slip. The face at the bottom of the well is your own.

      If you use data for Australia here:

      http://www.nsstc.uah.edu/data/msu/v6.0beta/tlt/uahncdc_lt_6.0beta5.txt

      you will see that the trend from 1978 is 0.16.

      If it was a cooling trend, as imagined by you, the trend would be -ve.

      Vague references to AR5 do not assist and just show that you are using smoke and mirrors instead of facts and data.

      • spangled drongo says:

        Apart from denying the one-eyed bias of their ABC, chrissie is in denial of the fact that a nothing-to-negative trend for the whole 21st C [when record ACO2 emissions have occurred] throws considerable doubt on his AGW religion.

        Even though he may be having doubts about his CAGW bible.

        I suppose it’s all he has left to cling to.

  • Neville says:

    Chris I can agree and disagree with you. Yes the full UAH V 6 TLT record shows that OZ has a 0.16 c a decade warming trend, but the trend since March 1996 is a flat or cooling trend. That’s 21 years and 2 months. I’ll try and find out what that trend is in degrees C.

    The OZ trend for TMT is 0.12 c decade since DEC 1978 and for the globe it is 0.09c a decade. But there is still a RECENT pause in the TLT for Sth ex tropics and Sth temp region and both have paused for 19 years and 5 months. And SP TLT region shows no warming at all since DEC 1978 from both UAH and RSS. SP shows slight cooling for UAH and RSS for TMT.

    Everyone knows that there was a cooling trend for the globe for about 31 years from about 1945 to 1976 and we had numerous scares about a coming Ice age at that time. This ended with the rapid warm phase start up of the PDO in 1976. Cooling, warming and flat trends can be found in temp records over a period of time. But that doesn’t mean that the overall trend is not one of warming.

    But using the York Uni tool you can still find a global cooling trend from 1997.1 to 2015.1 in both UAH V6 and RSS V 3. This was before the latest strong and natural el nino event. That’s about 18 years.

    http://www.ysbl.york.ac.uk/~cowtan/applets/trend/trend.html

    • Chris Warren says:

      Neville

      The flat or cooling trend is a short-run event.

      If there was no global warming, natural fluctuations would go up and down equally.

      However if there is global warming, the down trend is countered and we end up with a flat or cooling trend in its place.

      So instead of up-down-up-down-up-down

      we get

      up-flat-up-flat-up-flat etc.

      I have already posted the link where Don Aitkin posted the basic picture, but here it is again;

      http://donaitkin.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/image021.jpg

      A “pause”, “hiatus”, “flat trend” (whatever) proves global warming is a fact.

      The warming below the stratosphere matched with cooling above proves that heat is being trapped.

      The development of the tropical hotspots demonstrated here:

      http://archive.is/S7a73

      proves that global warming is a fact.

  • Neville says:

    Chris there is no hot spot above the tropics compared to other regions of the globe. TLT above the tropics shows just 0.12 c decade and TMT shows just 0.08 c decade according to UAH V6. NP shows TLT 0.25 c decade and TMT 0.18 c decade. SP shows zero trend for TLT and SP shows cooling -0.02 for TMT.
    The global trend is TLT 0.12 c decade and for TMT trend is 0.09 c decade. So no tropical hot spot and no warming at the SP region. Check it out.

  • Chris Warren says:

    The warm spots are at around -25 latitude and +5 latitude and at from around 500 hPa to 300 hPa.

    See here: http://archive.is/S7a73

    Due to their current limited horizontal size, you would not expect them to stand out in the data you have restricted your self too.

    Presumably if atmospheric green house gases increase, these warm spots will increase.

  • Neville says:

    Chris have a look at the graph in this post from Dr Roy Spencer. Definitely no hot spot found by the UAH V6 observations and using the best NASA satellite data since 1978. In fact the HADS 3 SST data is higher than the UAH troposphere data above the tropics.

    http://www.drroyspencer.com/2015/05/new-satellite-upper-troposphere-product-still-no-tropical-hotspot/

    • Chris Warren says:

      Neville

      This paper is authoritative: http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/10/5/054007

      Spencer’s reasons for rejecting it are gratuitous and embarrassing.

      Spencers data is not dissected based on latitude, so his conclusions will different from researchers undertaking a spatial approach across different latitudes. The warming spot is found (so far) at particular locations. Maybe if Spencer used appropriate gridded data he would find what others have found. Spencer restricts himself to a vertical merged dimension. This is inadequate – you need to look at different latitudes as well – a horizontal ie latitudinal dimension.

      His rambling comments over water vapour constitute nothing more than his private speculations.

  • Neville says:

    Chris that 2012 study is old hat and has been dealt with before. I know who I’d trust to know the most about this subject ands it’s definitely Spencer and Christy.

  • tripitaka says:

    Well hello Drongo. I missed your input into the climate change conversation. So it’s good to have you back. You say, among other things that “The irony that those who contribute net nothing get all the support while the lifters get zilch is also lost upon these same blitherers.”

    Wow poor lifters. My heart bleeds for them who get nothing. But how did things get to be so bad for these lifters do you think and who is supporting them and why would they be doing this?

    I suppose that you will say that it is the same reason that climate science has become so corrupt; it’s political correctness gone mad. But, being a curious person and always wanting to know why things happen, there is such a thing as cause and effect you know, I keep wondering where did this new form of political correctness come from and how and why did it take over from the old political correctness that you love so much?

    Can you explain how the blitherers who are so stupid and lazy and apparently useless managed to organise this politically correct coup that has destroyed your life, or are you too busy burning up with and dealing with your exploding head to attempt a coherent explanation?

    It seems to me that if things had been so good under the wealthy white male hegemony, there would not be any desire for change and that the good life you loved and valued would have gone on forever and the bliterers would not have been able to take over the world.

    • spangled drongo says:

      Trip luv, even most entitled proggy blitherers are somewhat concerned but aware that the lunatics will eventually take over the asylum but you are among the first I have come across that seem to be insisting that it should happen yesterday.

      You don’t even get that the cake has been left out in the rain.

      Is that really how you prefer it?

      • tripitaka says:

        Do tell me why there are so many ‘lunatics’ drongo? How did it happen in the wonderful western civilisation that men like you created, that so many blitherers and lunatics and “entitled proggies” – whatever these are – were able to destroy your wonderful way of life and your value system. What happened? How did lunatics and these really bad people manage to take control and leave the cake out in the rain?

        Why haven’t the really good clever people like you and your fellow masters of universe, the default human beings who always know the truth and what is right and who is wrong, won the ‘culture wars’?

        Against such bad and stupid people as me, it should be easy.

        • spangled drongo says:

          I thought even you could work that out, trip. You lefties have to stuff things up to the point of no return before you scream for the lifters to step it to solve your unsolvables.

          But while your fabulous woman’s world that was created mostly by men exists in some form that feeds the entitled, you can continue your insanity.

          You obviously don’t know history.

  • Chris Warren says:

    This is Fascism …. Quadrant’s Online editor rants against the ABC program Q&A and evokes bombing them and claims;

    “… none of the panel’s likely casualties would have represented the slightest reduction in humanity’s intelligence, decency, empathy or honesty.”

    See: http://tinyurl.com/Quadrant-Bomb-ABC

    • Chris Warren says:

      The editor-in-chief of Quadrant magazine, Keith Windschuttle, apologised to the ABC over an article suggesting the Manchester bombing should have taken place at the broadcaster’s Sydney headquarters.

      In his letter, sent on Wednesday, Mr Windschuttle said the article “represents a serious error of judgement and should not have been published”, and said he had “instructed that the article and its comment should be withdrawn completely from our website”.

      The article exhibited extreme, right-wing, politically motivated, murderous intent and mindset – “if you oppose me I will have you killed”.

      • tripitaka says:

        Lol Keith Windschuttle! What a silly person he is. And here’s a blog from some time ago that is still true, about him from Prof Quiggin;

        “……back in 2002, Windschuttle promised further volumes on an annual schedule, covering Queensland and WA. Since Queensland in particular was the focus of Henry Reynolds’ main work, and since the evidence of numerous massacres seems incontrovertible, this promised volume was central to Windschuttle’s claims of fabrication. The promise was repeated year after year, but no Volume 2 ever appeared, and the “research” supposedly already undertaken has stayed out of sight.

        Then in February 2008, Windschuttle published extracts from a Volume 2, promised for publication “later this year”, but now on a totally different topic, that of the Stolen Generation. His target this time was Peter Read, an eminent historian who’s done a lot of practical work reuniting Aboriginal children with their birth families. It’s 2009, the promised volume hasn’t appeared, and there hasn’t been any reference to it on Windschuttle’s site for some time.

        The real hoax victims here have been those on the political right, who’ve repeatedly swallowed Windschuttle’s promises to refute well-established facts about Australian history “later this year” and who are now getting their “science” from his discredited magazine.”

        But poor Keith is getting lots of criticism from the right wing loons for making this apology and for not ‘escalating’ the war they see is happening.

        • spangled drongo says:

          You don’t know what you are talking about [as usual] trip luv. Windschuttle and Bolt have a far better understanding of Aboriginal history than what passes for facts in the MSM. Even Quiggin has enough brains to stay out of the SG fakery:

          http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/faith-thomas-bowls-up-a-truth-about-the-stolen-generations/news-story/ba68809d9be41a4820466235c664c97a

          • tripitaka says:

            Yeah *you* might think that Windschuttle and Bolt have a far better understanding of Aboriginal history but there is no evidence to support this claim and a lot of evidence to that shows this is not the case.

            The fact is that you are a part of a very unbecoming minority in this country who irrationally and with malice resist the changes that are happening and taking away your selfish and greedy version of civilisation.

            You are so sad and your life is so bereft of any real comfort and satisfaction because you refuse to understand and keep up with the way knowledge and traditions change and adapt as science and social science continue to find more truths/knowledge about people and their nature and how we understand and represent and respond to the world in which we live.

            You are an unhappy man who hates and resents many of your fellow humans and can only continue to assert without any supporting evidence that you know what is what and that many of your fellow Australians are “blitherers’ and really bad people who are not as good or valuable as you are. 🙂

            It’s okay though, I don’t want to blow you up or even want you to die out early/ The best thing that could happen in my view is that you get some therapy and can move on past your hatred and wake up to the wonderful world that is possible when people stop hating ‘the other’.

          • spangled drongo says:

            Trippy luv, you demonstrate perfectly why I call you a blitherer.

            You make all sorts of evidence-free statements and claims that are completely unsupported by anything other than your personal emotions.

            You don’t have a clue about me but that doesn’t stop your foolishness issuing forth.

            I did try to tell you once about young, unpartnered aboriginal girls who had their babies in the bush and left them there to die because they could not cope, and these babies when found, saved, nurtured and raised by others were later listed as part of the “stolen generation”. [And don’t infer that I am blaming these young aboriginal girls].

            It is mind-blowing how lefty progressives through ignorance can label an action the complete reverse of the truth.

            You specialise in it.

          • margaret says:

            I like to call him Windscuttle … full of wind and scuttlebutt.

          • Ross says:

            Some interesting anecdotes, to be sure Drongo.
            But I assumed your link would lead me to something like ‘A history of Aboriginal Australia’ ; Andrew Bolt.
            No such luck.

    • JimboR says:

      And as the author looks for new employment, what odds will you give me that he ends up a One Nation candidate somewhere? The Shovel nails their recruitment strategy here:

      http://www.theshovel.com.au/2017/04/26/one-nation-candidate/

  • Neville says:

    Another accurate article from Matt Ridley just confirming that S&W energy are fra-dulent nonsense and cannot replace Fossil Fuels or Hydro or Nuclear. This couldn’t be easier to grasp yet politicians, the media, banks and big business etc continue to tell untruths to the people of the world.
    Not only do they continue to tell porkies all day and every day, year in, year out, but they continue to claim that they will serve up a better climate for the world by 2100. This is mathematically and scientifically impossible, just ask China, India and the developing world as their co2 emissions continue to soar. So what is their real agenda, or are they really this stupid?

    http://www.thegwpf.com/matt-ridley-wind-turbines-are-neither-clean-nor-green/

    • Ross says:

      Neville! You’ve had a breakthrough!
      ‘China’s and India’s co2 emissions continue to soar, making a better climate impossible.’
      By George, I think you’ve got it!
      Soaring co2 emissions are indeed a threat to the worlds climate.
      Thank you. Well done lad!

      • Neville says:

        Ross I’m not sure how much their future co2 emissions will change things, but I’m covering all bases and speaking on behalf of the alarmists as well. So far we know that fossil fuels have made our world safer, greener and greatly extended life expectancy.
        But please tell us what you think are the problems created by so called CAGW since the start of the industrial revolution? And then advise us how we could fix your problem.

        • Ross says:

          Me? Personally? On how to ‘fix’ the problem of CAGW? I’m afraid that one might be a tad too large and complex for little old me.
          But, I’ll give you my two cents worth….
          Off the top of my head, I’d say finding a way to cut human induced co2 emissions into the atmosphere would be right up there. But you’ve already pointed that out.
          Massive investments in renewables R&D seems like a no brainer. (I believe many major corporations are already doing this?)
          Using solar and wind along with our current power supply as a stop gap on the way to phasing out co2 emitting sources. The previously mentioned R&D coming into play here.
          But for an actual road map? I’ll just have to that to the worlds best and brightest, I think.
          Modesty forbids, including myself in that grouping. (I’m sure you’d agree with that assessment)
          But recognizing the problem is an important first step. So good for you.
          Let’s take the next one together. For our grandkids. And theirs.
          Have a great day, Neville.

  • Chris Warren says:

    Apart from some commentators, it seems that your site is distributing malware. I have just cleaned my system and checked and I received the following:

    *********************************

    uBlock Origin has prevented the following page from loading:

    http://donaitkin.com/

    Because of the following filter

    ||donaitkin.com^
    Found in: Malware domains

    Disable strict blocking for donaitkin.com

    *****************************************

    So I now only access this site on a Linux system.

  • spangled drongo says:

    In today’s Oz the Public Health Association of Australia, comprising doctors, researchers and health academics, has asked the Joint Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade to take a stand on the issue when it releases its much-anticipated report into the status of religious freedom later in the year.

    “The PHAA urges the committee to include a recommendation in its report that disavows the ­notion there is any inherent link between Islam and terror,” the submission says.

    Can you believe “experts” like this?

    Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts. And you can witness the proof here.

    These PHAA “experts” similarly pontificate on the catastrophe of human caused climate change.

    And we all know medical science does 180 degree about-faces on an almost daily basis.

    Why don’t they just stick to getting wrong what they “understand” and leave the rest to other “experts”.

    • Neville says:

      SD you are right and Andrew Bolt used his TV show to go after our Asio boss who also thinks there is no link between Islam and terrorism. This is beyond belief that our top spy is either dumb or is trying to pull a a con trick on the Aussie people. What do we pay this bloke for, if he really believes this garbage? But surely he must be sacked as soon as possible? Here’s Andrew’s editorial.

      http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/the-asio-boss-should-quit-or-say-sorry/news-story/e3f6d64672f5a27aadfd13240e0dab6b

      • Ross says:

        ASIO are perhaps a little smarter than Mr Bolt, and have an important job to do.
        You know, protecting Mr Bolt from actual terrorists.
        One of the main resources ASIO uses is intelligence.
        They work closely with the Islamic community to thwart violent terrorism before it happens.
        Without that trust…no intelligence. No intelligence?…Figure it out Nev.
        Violent Islamic terrorists want you to target the general Muslim population. That’s part of their strategy.
        Don’t be in such a hurry to do that job for them.
        I know it’s not one of Bolts strong points, but ‘think’.
        Let ASIO do their job, without the silly shock jock hysteria.
        Hysteria is what ISIS thrive on.

        • spangled drongo says:

          Rossie, I think your intelligence is about on par with what you’d get from muslim orgs.

          When the muslim orgs are telling all travelling muslims to clear their phones of all contacts, you can imagine how much reliable intelligence they would be providing.

          About as clever, too.

          They can’t work out that a muslim with a clean phone would be an immediate suspect.

    • tripitaka says:

      Hi Drongo

      You ask “Why don’t they just stick to getting wrong what they “understand” and leave the rest to other “experts”.”

      I’m not sure who ‘they’ are but I’m assuming that this ‘they’ you refer to are people like me; I’m still not sure who the other “experts” are, but then much of your thinking is opaque to me. Although it is clear that it is not thinking that you do; not rational thinking but a form of simplistic reacting to things you don’t like.

      You are such an emotional person and so full of basic reasoning errors that come from the fundamentally flawed assumption that you are smarter than the rest of us and a better person and that the things you like are the things that are good for everyone and the way we all should be and live.

      How do you explain why a growing number of people are rejecting the things that you accept as truth? Surely ‘they’ can’t all be too stupid and too captured by a desire to suck at the teat of the taxpayer to understand things the way you understand them?

      It would be a good idea for you at this stage of your life, to critically and rationally examine this assumption and try and work out where it came from and how it could be possible for you to be a person with such superior abilities and yet be so unconvincing and so unable to explain what is going on and why your way of life is increasingly being challenged as bad for people in general.

      This enlightenment of the ordinary people you despise and accuse of being stupid and lazy, won’t stop now that they have the internet and we can talk to each other on social media. Social media is tearing down the wall of lies that Murdoch and the right wing media have been perpetrating for decades.

      People can now see through the nonsense that your type of person has accepted as truth and how lacking in character your type of person is.

      The carry on about the stupid things Roger Franklin said is another nail in the coffin of your type of conservative belief and it confirms everything that the left has been saying about the nature of right wing conservatives and their lack of intelligence. Your sort of conservative people are greedy and selfish and nasty and full of hate for your fellow human beings. One sees this all the time on right wing sites that are run by less honourable people than Don.

      You do know that many studies have found that conservatives/right wing people are less intelligent than lefties? I think the explanation is that right wing ideas and the type of conservatism that you espouse, are the cause of this lack of intelligence. But some people think that it comes from stupid people liking right wing ideas and lacking the flexibility of mind that would allow you to understand leftie ideas.

      • Chris Warren says:

        Scratch a drongo – find a fascist?

        • spangled drongo says:

          Of course we would expect the blitherer-in-chief to agree with a stupid statement that “disavows the ­notion there is any inherent link between Islam and terror,”

          Everyone knows that when a suicide bomber screams “Alahu Akbar” that it could just as easily be a Christian or an atheist.

          Ah! The stupid! It burns!!!

      • spangled drongo says:

        “I’m not sure who ‘they’ are but I’m assuming that this ‘they’ you refer to are people like me;”

        Pay attention and stop kidding yourself, trippyluv.

        Are you now a member of the PHAA?

        We already know that this cap fits the blitherers.

      • spangled drongo says:

        Trippyluv, if you find anything wrong in what I say the logical and rational method is to point this out and give specific reasons why it is so and I am happy to discuss it with you.

        You don’t go on some round-the-world diatribe of waffle.

        Give yourself, awa the rest of us, a break.

  • spangled drongo says:

    When you see our “leaders” in such ignorant denial I suppose you can’t really blame a few stupid blitherers who never think for themselves anyway.

    https://www.conservativereview.com/articles/manchester-mayor-muslim-terrorist-not-a-muslim

  • spangled drongo says:

    This applies to ordinary, everyday Muslims:

    “Muslims travelling overseas have been told to clear their mobile phone storage and delete social media threads, messaging apps and violent images as part of official travel advice from a peak Islamic legal body, sparking concerns would-be terrorists were being coached in evading authorities.

    Immigration and Border Protection Minister Peter Dutton has expressed significant concern over the advice, confirming he wrote to the Muslim Legal Network of NSW demanding clarification on “what purpose is served in providing the advice”.

    “In the current international climate, I am very concerned this guidance could be interpreted as advice to evade Border Force and conceal illegal activity,” Mr Dutton wrote in the letter, after The Australian brought the tips to his attention.”

    Can’t have them co-operating with authorities and the law at all, hey?

    Why would that be, I wonder?

    • tripitaka says:

      lol drongo, my comment really triggered you didn’t it? So quickly you responded and fired off so many random sentences, none of which even attempted to answer my questions. More evidence – as if I need it 🙂 – that I am right about your cognitive functioning being reactionary and based on the mistaken idea that you have that you represent the best of human nature and everyone else is flawed in some way.

      But what do you think that “the current international climate” actually is? Seems to me that it is a disdain for the sort of behaviour that Donald Trump exhibited while in Europe – he acts like a spoiled child and a boorish uncivilised lout.

      I think that the current international climate – not to mention that it is changing because of human behaviour – is an evolving realisation human nature is basically good and it is circumstances – upbringing and the environment and specifically being shut out of the community and denied respect – that creates the conditions in which people go bad and some Muslims become terrorists.

      Like I said sometime ago, it is quite clear that white Western people can be terrorists because there was the IRA and there have been a number of horrific terror events perpetrated by white Western men. Anders Breivik is the worst I suppose. The reason that Muslims are likely to be radicalised and perpetrate terrorist events at this time, is clearly related to the wars and conditions in the Middle East and the role that the West has played in creating that mess.

      And then the next critical step is the way that Muslims are treated by bigots like you. This attitude is clearly a large factor in the way that ordinary people become bad people.

      Like the Lockyer Valley gunman who shot the policeman; just a bad egg for no reason you think? You think it was in his genes to be a cop killer and there was nothing that could have prevented this tragedy or perhaps you think that more beatings when he was a child would have turned him into a decent citizen?

      Or does it ever cross your mind that this man and so many other unfortunate people in our society could have been decent people and contributed to their society if they had been given a better upbringing when they were vulnerable children and had not been the targets of the sort of hatred and disdain that you and your fellow full of bile and bigotry conservatives have for so many other people.

      • spangled drongo says:

        Trippyluv, can’t you be a little more vague than “the current international climate”?

        I mean, this only covers a million or so subjects.

        And what an insensitive type I am for not sympathising with Muslim bombers. And not going down your pathway to insanity by not doing what we know is the right way to deal with it.

        And this Lockyer Valley cop murderer was probably a lovely guy if you really knew him.

        What a crazy, mindless waffler and dumb conclusion jumper toer you are, trip.

        You need a new psychiatrist.

  • spangled drongo says:

    Andrew Bolt Blog Posts

    TRUMP COULD SAVE OUR ELECTRICITY

    Terry McCrann

    “LET’S hope the reports are true: that President Trump will follow through on his campaign promise to take the US out of the so-called Paris Climate Agreement…

    Ideally, we would follow; but as there’s zero chance of that under the current clueless prime minister, hopefully it would at least force some reality back into the discussion about energy and electricity in particular.

    Yesterday we had power which was fundamentally reliable, plentiful and cheap — and critically not just for consumers but also business.

    But in recent years at both state and federal level we have embarked on a deliberate policy course of making electricity not just less but actually deliberately unreliable, and we are headed for power rationing and the most expensive electricity in the world.

    All to absolutely no point other than moral preening. We can cut our emissions of carbon dioxide to zero — indeed, we could actually go negative, by closing down the country entirely and switch to just growing trees — and it would make zero difference to global or indeed local temperatures.”

    Melbourne10–13°C??

  • spangled drongo says:

    Bolt is going gangbusters today. Hate the proggies to miss this.

    Not the old hoary chestnut, “do you still beat your wife?” but good directions on how to do it properly.

    Think of the money it will save the taxpayer on DV prollems.

    And put those wives, who seek equality, in their rightful place:

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/the-most-feminist-religion-guide-to-beating-wives/news-story/79e80de0d8636c807c6020e0a210be11

    • tripitaka says:

      So funny drongo. Do calm down and take a nana nap before your head explodes with all the winning.

      Poor old Bolt has been going ‘gangbusters’ for years now and his rantings haven’t convinced anyone who isn’t a delusional conservative that he knows what he is talking about.

      • spangled drongo says:

        That’s right, trippiluv, I forgot there for a moment, it’s all wasted on you. You support wife beating, hey?

        Or are you just confused as usual?

        As in; no idea who your friends are?

  • Neville says:

    More good news about co2 emissions. Africa has become much greener over the last 20 years.

    http://www.thegwpf.com/reality-check-africa-has-become-much-greener-in-the-last-20-years/

    And parts of our planet are now cooling, thanks to increased greening of the biosphere.

    http://www.thegwpf.com/gaia-at-work-global-greening-cools-parts-of-the-earth/

    • Chris Warren says:

      Neville

      Yet again you have posted propaganda from denialist websites without reading or understanding their tricks.

      If you go to your link about cooling you will find a fabrication by someone using the name Andrew Follett. He or she says;

      “In total, researchers say that these effects have mitigated global warming by roughly 14 percent.”

      But when you go to the actual research you find that the 14% relates only to 60% OF PLANT AREAS . Thde researchers clearly state:

      “the group found that for approximately 60 percent of all plant areas, an increase in greening has mitigated global warming by approximately 14 percent.”

      This is not 60% of global warming.

      Further the researchers noted that:

      “For colder areas, greening has led to a rise in air temperatures of approximately 10 percent. ”

      So yet again, you have posted false news and cherry-picked misunderstandings.

      No wonder you do not understand global warming, climate change nor the possibilities for a future catastrophe should current trends continue.

      • spangled drongo says:

        “In an area that is generally warm, an increase in leaf cover can lead to localized cooling due to plant transpiration (water evaporating) which condenses in the air, the researchers report. In cooler places, the impact can be the opposite—in boreal regions (tree covered) and colder places, local temperatures can rise slightly due to less sunlight being reflected back from the surface.

        To come to these conclusions, the researchers studied satellite data for the period 1982 to 2011, which allowed them to assign a leaf area index (LAI) to various parts of the Earth’s surface. In mapping the entire planet, the group found that for approximately 60 percent of all plant areas, an increase in greening has mitigated global warming by approximately 14 percent. For colder areas, greening has led to a rise in air temperatures of approximately 10 percent. They also found that the impact could be more dramatic during extreme weather conditions—by up to five times, for example, during warm and dry periods or cold and wet periods.

        The researchers suggest their findings indicate that changes to vegetation clearly have an impact on local climate, and thus should be taken into consideration as mitigation and adaptation strategies are developed to deal with a warming planet.”

        Thanks, Neville for some good news. I observe this happening on a twice daily basis when I do my 3 hours a day flora and fauna data logging.

        But dear ol’ BC’s interpretation of this great improvement to our planet is:

        “No wonder you do not understand global warming, climate change nor the possibilities for a future catastrophe should current trends continue.”

        Oh dear! What a tiny mind.

  • Neville says:

    What hope have you got trying to discuss Muslim extremism with the left? Just have a look at Sam Harris trying to talk a bit of common sense to a fool like Ben Affleck. I don’t know how you get through to these people because proper polling, facts , data and history don’t interest them. Let’s face it a lot of left wing people are not very bright. Sad but true.

    • tripitaka says:

      Yeah Nev, the left are not interested in science and knowledge and progress and are so stupid that they can’t see what the great white geniuses like you and Drongo can see. Seriously?

      There was an interesting interview on Late Night Live with Pilita Clark who is the Environment correspondent for the Financial Times that was somewhat reassuring that deniers like you are increasingly irrelevant and are just an artefact of the greedy and selfish decades that we have suffered through and that now seem to be over.

      “US government animosity towards the Paris agreement on climate change is coming at a time when United States companies are investing heavily in renewable energy. In fact the state of Texas produces more renewable energy than Canada and Australia combined.”

      See that bit about Texas? Specifically Paris Texas if you listen to the interview available online by googling. More renewables than you can poke a stick at! Who woulda thought?

  • Neville says:

    How many times do I have to provide the evidence about the planet’s human co2 emissions to you Trip? I know you happily live in a fantasy world , so here is the evidence again just for you. Your silly nonsensical comment doesn’t make any practical sense. And the EIA also tells us co2 emissions will increase by another 34% by 2040. What is it that you find so hard to understand about this data?

    https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/ieo/pdf/emissions.pdf

  • Neville says:

    Here are Chinese co2 emissions from 1980, just for Trip.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions#/media/File:Carbon_dioxide_emissions_due_to_consumption_in_China.png

    And here are all the countries co2 emissions on the real planet earth. Note that China passed the USA in 2007 and now emit 29.5% , India 6.81%, USA 14.3% and OZ 1.2%. And India hasn’t really started to develop yet , and some economists expect it rival China post 2050. China and India now emit 36.3% of the world’s co2 emissions.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions

  • Neville says:

    Here is the Lomborg Team’s PR study AGAIN that proves there is nothing the world can do to reduce temp etc by 2100 by any measurable number that would make any difference. Don’t forget he uses the EPA and IPCC MAGICC model tool to calculate his result and he also uses a much higher sensitivity than recent studies show.
    And he presumes that all countries will follow COP 21 to the letter. IOW it is all just more fra-d and BS and we know that Dr Hansen the father of their CAGW thinks COP 21 is BS and fra-d as well. Everything about the mitigation of their so called CAGW is a con run by BS merchants. OH and it will waste endless trillions $ for a guaranteed zero return. What don’t you understand?

    http://www.lomborg.com/press-release-research-reveals-negligible-impact-of-paris-climate-promises

    • spangled drongo says:

      Neville, you can’t expose facts like this to the blitherers!

      This is the real world!

      It’s just not allowed.

      Particularly when it comes from white males.

      But thanks for that. Yes, even Hansen realises that we need nuclear to make the system work.

      Wouldn’t it be wonderful if the alarmists could accept reason, rationality and logic?

  • spangled drongo says:

    Looks like the world is starting to wake up to these warmist fraudsters like Sir Nicholas Stern:

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/nicholas-stern-warming-guru-in-hot-water/news-story/849344a2ced21428e05a6d74b4af6822

  • Chris Warren says:

    I missed this show:

    There was an interesting interview on Late Night Live with Pilita Clark who is the Environment correspondent for the Financial Times that was somewhat reassuring that deniers like you are increasingly irrelevant and are just an artefact of the greedy and selfish decades that we have suffered through and that now seem to be over.

    But I tend to agree. The so-called deniers and skeptics are now either a rump in Parliament where they are a laughing stock, or out on the internet where they are just barking mad.

    The only hope for future generations now, is the possibility that further increases in GHG’s will have a diminishing warming impact on the atmosphere and whatever future equilibrium results, that this will still keep enough of the the planet habitable.

    The key to this has nothing to do with all the cherry-picking silly references so far produced here, but the relationship between the heat increase below the stratosphere and the heat decrease above the stratosphere.

    If this continues long enough the earth will become uninhabitable.

  • spangled drongo says:

    The blitherer-in-chief yesterday: “a future catastrophe should current trends continue.”

    Today: “If this continues long enough the earth will become uninhabitable.”

    Why don’t you just get the classic doom scream “THE END IS NIGH” painted on your forehead, chrissieluv?

    Poor ol’ BC. Reduced to believing what his “side” tells him on the “science”.

    Completely devoid of evidence but that doesn’t count.

    It’s feelings wot matter, hey?

    I can just imagine how much historical data he has on “the relationship between the heat increase below the stratosphere and the heat decrease above the stratosphere” and what previous historical results were to compare them with.

    But he sure is sure that “THE END IS NIGH”!!!

    Dingbattery rules supreme!

  • spangled drongo says:

    That dingbattery of BC’s is also quick to scream “Fascist”.

    He also doesn’t get that some of his CAGW-supporting-and-financing mates also supported fascists.

    It seems that the Rockefellers have a poor record when it come to choosing who they fund.

    Check this out: Rockefeller Funded German Eugenics in 1920’s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL8UOD1gVFE

    Check the video at 54 mins and 12 secs.

    But if it won’t play for you, you can guess why.

    So check here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockefeller_Foundation

  • Neville says:

    Here’s the CSIRO’s latest report on GHGs over the last 2,000 years, released today. The planet has warmed by 1 c since the end of the LIA and their ABC has been banging on about it this morning. I heard on AM that co2 percentage of the atmosphere was now 0.04% ( up from 0.028%) and all GHGs added another 0.01%, so total of 0.05% of the atmosphere today.

    https://pursuit.unimelb.edu.au/articles/key-greenhouse-gases-higher-than-any-time-over-last-800-000-years

    • spangled drongo says:

      Yes Neville, you can bank on the usual bedwetters, CSIRO and Auntie to tell us something we already know and make out that it is proof of CAGW.

      But when you apply the known natural climate variations it shows that there is nothing unusual happening and it is all BAU [blither as usual] from our “experts”.

      That 1c of warming since 1750 is 0.37c per century which is ~ one third of natural climate variability for the last 80 centuries.

      1750 was the end of the LIA and the beginning of the Industrial Revolution and that tiny amount of warming would not even account for UHIE and the 1,000% increase in population and the corresponding land use changes since then.

      And coming out of the LIA, the coldest extended period known to civilisation, the climate is only going to warm.

      As I have said before, human CO2 emissions can more easily be shown to cause cooling.

      I doubt if you could provide more convincing proof that human CO2 emissions are a non-problem and do anything but improve our living conditions.

      But our “experts” tell us it is proof of the reverse.

      The blithering stupid, it burns:

      http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2016/s4678569.htm

  • spangled drongo says:

    Have you ever wondered about the connection between male genitalia and climate change?

    This is serious, mum.

    SOCIOLOGY | RESEARCH ARTICLE
    The conceptual penis as a social construct

    Abstract: Anatomical penises may exist, but as pre-operative transgendered women
    also have anatomical penises, the penis vis-à-vis maleness is an incoherent construct.
    We argue that the conceptual penis is better understood not as an anatomical
    organ but as a social construct isomorphic to performative toxic masculinity.
    Through detailed poststructuralist discursive criticism and the example of climate
    change, this paper will challenge the prevailing and damaging social trope that
    penises are best understood as the male sexual organ and reassign it a more fitting
    role as a type of masculine performance.

  • Chris Warren says:

    In an act of absolute political bastardry, Trump has withdrawn US from Paris Climate Agreement and broadcast fake news that:

    “The United States, under the Trump administration, will continue to be the cleanest and most environmentally friendly country on Earth. We’ll be the cleanest. We’re going to have the cleanest air. We’re going to have the cleanest water. ”

    Trump admitted that:

    Even if the Paris Agreement were implemented in full, with total compliance from all nations, it is estimated it would only produce a two-tenths of one degree — think of that; this much — Celsius reduction in global temperature by the year 2100.

    which is what we need in place of the alternative increase in global temperature.

    So the United States Liar-in-Chief has moved us all one step closer to catastrophe.

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/06/01/statement-president-trump-paris-climate-accord

    • margaret says:

      That a man like Trump could become president of the US after a man like Obama is beyond belief. It has taken the joy from life and put the world in danger and the planet already at peril, in the hands of the god of mammon. (Apologies for the hyperbole Don :)).

    • dlb says:

      If the science is right (a big if), and my maths correct, the USA pulling out of the Paris accord would therefore increase global temps 0.03 degrees by the year 2100.
      What a catastrophe!

    • spangled drongo says:

      “So the United States Liar-in-Chief has moved us all one step closer to catastrophe.”

      So the Blitherer-in-Chief also tells lies to smear someone who did what he said he would do.

      Because his predecessor played the US [who are doing more than any other country in reducing emissions]for suckers.

      And your warming catastrophe could just as easily be a cooling catastrophe or no catastrophe at all.

      But get it tattooed on your forehead anyway.

  • Neville says:

    I’ve explained before why Paris COP 21 will not change the temp by any measurable outcome. And Lomborg’s PR study proves that is the case backed up by Dr Hansen the father of their so called CAGW who tells us that COP 21 is just BS and fra-d. Dr Hansen also told us that S&W energy are fairytale energy and believing in S&W is like believing in the Easter bunny and the Tooth fairy.
    But the Bolter fact checks some of the ridiculous claims about Trump’s decision to leave Cop 21. Some of the extremists are barking mad.,
    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/warmists-defied-trump-pulls-out-of-paris-climate-deal/news-story/74be2828bd9ffc0825d9237d736b6f8f

    • Chris Warren says:

      Neville

      If you broaden your reading you will broaden your understanding.

      A global agreement is the only way this issue can be addressed and once agreements are made they should be honoured – be the honourable.

      Trump has dishonoured the United States and placed the rest of the world in jeopardy.

      • Neville says:

        Chris just check the latest data and you’ll understand why Lomborg and Hansen are correct. I’m not interested in fairytales.
        The US co2 emissions are now at the same level as 1997 after a big reduction since 2007.

        http://cdiac.ornl.gov/CO2_Emission/timeseries/national

        And China’s co2 emissions have boomed since 2000. In fact China now emits over 3 times the co2 emissions today than it did in 1998. That’s over a 300% increase in just 19 years. Unbelievable but true, just check the data.

  • margaret says:

    “The nations that remain in the Paris Agreement will be the nations that reap the benefits in jobs and industries created. I believe the United States of America should be at the front of the pack. But even in the absence of American leadership; even as this Administration joins a small handful of nations that reject the future; I’m confident that our states, cities, and businesses will step up and do even more to lead the way, and help protect for future generations the one planet we’ve got.”

    Barack Obama

    • spangled drongo says:

      That’s the best reason yet to do what Trump did, marg.

      The precautionary principle is not about paying a yearly insurance premium on your house that is ten times the value of that house particularly when the risk has never been proven.

      Common sense is not essential in this crazy world we live in but it still has some advantages.

  • spangled drongo says:

    CLIMATE CHANGE

    The Arctic Ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot according to a report to the Commerce Department yesterday from Consulate at Bergen Norway. Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard-of temperatures in the Arctic zone.

    Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met as far north as 81 degrees 29 minutes. Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters showed the gulf stream still very warm. Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared.

    Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast shoals of herring and smelts which have never before ventured so far north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds.

    Within a few years it is predicted that due to the ice melt the sea will rise and make most coast cities uninhabitable.

    * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Whoops, I must apologise. I neglected to mention that this report was from November 2, 1922 , as reported by the AP and published in The Washington Post 93 years ago.

  • Chris Warren says:

    Neville

    You have been tricked by your pet website. Past changes in ice were caused by natural forces and therefore reversed. The current trends are caused by unnatural flows of GHGs into the atmosphere and resulting heat trap in the atmosphere which will not reverse.

    Pointing to past natural changes is not relevant and does not explain today’s cooling above the stratosphere.

    The current sea ice trend is:

    http://psc.apl.uw.edu/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/schweiger/ice_volume/BPIOMASIceVolumeAnomalyCurrentV2.1.png

    The current polar caps ice trend is:

    https://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/

    So please broaden your reading or you will never understand global warming.

    • Neville says:

      Chris, the current Arctic sea ice extent is the second highest in 10,000 years. And don’t forget we are still in the warm phase of the AMO and when it changes to cool we can expect a higher extent to develop.
      Judith Curry is an expert in this Arctic field and she expects the AMO to switch in the 2020s. But who knows?

      But during the Holocene climate optimum boreal forests grew up to the Arctic coastline and temps then were up to 7 c warmer than today. See MacDonald et al 2000 study and summary here.

      http://epic.awi.de/4164/1/Mac2000c.pdf

      Radiocarbon-dated macrofossils are used to document Holocene
      treeline history across northern Russia (including Siberia). Boreal
      forest development in this region commenced by 10,000 yr B.P.
      Over most of Russia, forest advanced to or near the current arctic
      coastline between 9000 and 7000 yr B.P. and retreated to its
      present position by between 4000 and 3000 yr B.P. Forest establishment
      and retreat was roughly synchronous across most of
      northern Russia. Treeline advance on the Kola Peninsula, however,
      appears to have occurred later than in other regions. During
      the period of maximum forest extension, the mean July temperatures
      along the northern coastline of Russia may have been 2.5° to
      7.0°C warmer than modern. The development of forest and expansion
      of treeline likely reflects a number of complimentary
      environmental conditions, including heightened summer insolation,
      the demise of Eurasian ice sheets, reduced sea-ice cover,
      greater continentality with eustatically lower sea level, and extreme
      Arctic penetration of warm North Atlantic waters. The late
      Holocene retreat of Eurasian treeline coincides with declining
      summer insolation, cooling arctic waters, and neoglaciation.
      © 2000 University of Washington.

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