This is the place for comments which do not in my judgment have a clear relevance to the essay that began the thread.
Neville says:
February 26, 2017 at 7:46 am (Edit)
More corruption and fra-d in the UK and these green fra-ds once again actually increase co2 emissions for even more waste of billions of $ for a zero return.
Just incredible and Labor and the Greens will endlessly waste more billions here as well if they win the next election.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4255010/Idiocy-replacing-coal- power-stations-burning-wood.html
Chris Warren says:
February 26, 2017 at 8:14 am (Edit)
Neville
Grown-ups may have found a perfectly reasonable aid to CO2 emissions reduction.
Throwing tantrums is pointless.
spangled drongo says:
February 26, 2017 at 10:23 am (Edit)
Yes, Neville, chrissie’s may be right for once.
It IS hard to understand how grown-ups could have stuffed up so badly.
Unless of course it was those entitlement mentality, progressive, mini-minds again.
“Grown-ups may have found a perfectly reasonable aid to CO2 emissions reduction.”
Well, chrissie luv, don’t keep us in suspenders, TELL US.
spangled drongo says:
February 26, 2017 at 11:15 am (Edit)
It’s interesting that the “wisdom” behind Drax [Neville’s link] is also the “wisdom” behind the “science” of AGW.
As it is this same “wisdom” that is heavily promoting the idea that Tony Abbott should not be allowed back.
Not too hard to unnerstan, hey?
Except for the likes of chrissie et al who refuse to see a COI here.
Ross says:
February 26, 2017 at 11:40 am (Edit)
spangled drongo says:
February 26, 2017 at 12:26 pm (Edit)
Ah, the settled science of climatology that the Ds, Ps & Ts are sceptical of:
‘Last year NASA climatologist Bill Patzert defeatedly stated, “We are in a drought forever. I can’t think of any scenario where we would have six wet El Niño years in a row, which would top out all the reservoirs and the ground water supply.” Apparently, we don’t need to. This year shattered expectations, once again demonstrating how much we still don’t know about the climate.’
https://patriotpost.us/posts/47634
And even “Nature” is waking up at last:
“According to a survey published in the journal Nature last summer, more than 70% of researchers have tried and failed to reproduce another scientist’s experiments.”
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-39054778?SThisFB
What a difference a Donald makes.
spangled drongo says:
February 28, 2017 at 8:35 pm (Edit)
Hey, trip! We’re all migrants or descendants of migrants. We’re all feral.
I even offered sodium fluoro acetate to some Aboriginal mates to prove they were indigenous but they politely declined the offer.
It’s just that some of us don’t choose to assimilate:
tripitaka says:
March 1, 2017 at 8:35 am (Edit)
But we are not all ‘ignorant’ immigrants Spangy. Some of us have smarts that mean like the Aborigines who choose not to assimilate because they have always had a dream that worked to give them a better life. Some of us like my immigrant ancestors who came here country shopping and looking for a better life 5 generations ago came to get away from the sort of society that Tony wants, and in our family we have always known that there is a better way to live without the false dichotomy between criminal and non-criminal that is a product of the small and narrow minded common as muck immigrants who liked the very uncivilised white man’s ways.
This little conversation is so off topic that I will ignore any more of your responses that are not relevant and are only sad attempts to show your own particularly nasty brand of common as muck feral delusions. ? Bye hon.
spangled drongo says:
March 1, 2017 at 9:31 am (Edit)
Trip luv, you forgot to observe that you raised this [off?] topic about “ignorant immigrants”.
So are you are saying ferals who are also in denial of the realities around them ARE or AREN’T hypocrites?
Your point here is a little obscure.
But I can perfectly understand if you can’t handle the facts.
Chris Warren says:
March 1, 2017 at 9:20 am (Edit)
Disgusting racist redneck fascism from a complete Drongo.
spangled drongo says:
March 1, 2017 at 9:34 am (Edit)
Can’t deal with the truth and facts as usual, hey chrissie?
Point out where he is wrong.
Or would you rather invoke 18c?
Chris Warren says:
March 1, 2017 at 9:44 am (Edit)
Yes, offering Kooris toxic poison to supposedly “prove they were indigenous” needs referral to the HRC.
It is pure genocide.
spangled drongo says:
March 1, 2017 at 10:08 am (Edit)
Confirming I am right again, hey chrissie?
And you, as usual, are ducking and dodging.
And don’t know what you are talking about.
spangled drongo says:
March 1, 2017 at 10:34 am (Edit)
“It is pure genocide.”
Chrissie, a feral man requires 40 times more than a feral dog/dingo but a native bird needs up to 300 times more.
How much would a native man require [if one really existed]?
spangled drongo says:
March 1, 2017 at 10:39 am (Edit)
That, BTW, proves how the dingo is simply as feral as the cane toad.
But I digress. I really thought chrissie luv was referring to that link that got trip and marg all stirred.
But could he actually approve of it?
margaret says:
March 1, 2017 at 10:00 am (Edit)
Not adorable even tongue in cheek, Spangled Drongo.
Speaking of feral, spangled drongos obviously go ‘troppo’ out there in isolation.
If you as a migrant had assimilated in ‘proper’ capitalist fashion you could have earned $5.6 million a year as a CEO.
Robinson Crusoe’s Daddy’s advice sounds quaint now with Daniel Defoe’s old fashioned English terminology, but there are pearls in there nonetheless. It’s not about mediocrity and it’s not about meritocracy – it’s about making life LESS nasty short and brutish for the many and appreciating differences within the human race, not stirring up hatred.
“He told me it was for men of desperate Fortunes on one Hand, or of aspiring, superior Fortunes on the other, who went abroad upon Adventures, to rise by Enterprize, and make themselves famous in Undertakings of a Nature out of the common Road; that these things were either too far above me, or too far below me; that mine was the middle state, or what might be called the upper Station of Low Life, which he had found by long Experience was the best State in the World, the most suited to human Happiness, not exposed to the Miseries and Hardships, the Labour and Sufferings of the mechanick Part of Mankind.”
Robinson Crusoe didn’t take Dad’s advice of course but I don’t know what happened to him in the end after the desert island. Must look it up.
margaret says:
March 1, 2017 at 10:07 am (Edit)
Ah, he returned to Europe – and there’s something about his sugar plantations coming good. Ah for the life of a buccaneer, when men were men and women were …
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-real-robinson-crusoe-7487764 4/
spangled drongo says:
March 1, 2017 at 10:22 am (Edit)
Marg has a complete addiction to one sided views on history.
I hope you weren’t a history teacher, marg.
Chris Warren says:
March 1, 2017 at 1:55 pm (Edit)
More disgusting dirt from Drongo.
“How much would a native man require [if one really existed]?”
spangled drongo says:
March 1, 2017 at 3:13 pm (Edit)
I should have said, “how much MORE would a native man require [if one really existed].
Do you deny that aboriginals aren’t migrants, chrissie luv?
Is that your science speaking now or just your lefty PC.
Where you just love to bully honest people into your mad ideology?
No wonder you lefty loons don’t want FOS.
David says:
March 1, 2017 at 6:56 pm (Edit)
Poor Don. I am sure he would love to have someone substantial support his take on life. But all he has is you SD. And you really are a clown SD.
spangled drongo says:
March 1, 2017 at 8:38 pm (Edit)
“Do you deny that aboriginals aren’t migrants, chrissie luv?”
…..ARE migrants….
David says:
March 2, 2017 at 2:56 pm (Edit)
I do.
David says:
March 2, 2017 at 5:49 pm (Edit)
Do you deny that you are a Clown?
spangled drongo says:
March 1, 2017 at 3:17 pm (Edit)
How could any rational person ever accept chrissies science again?
When he knows he has to tell lies to cover for his religion.
You’ve blown it now, chrissie luv.
Ross says:
March 1, 2017 at 5:49 pm (Edit)
So this is why people are reluctant to post on your site, Don.
Ugly stuff.
spangled drongo says:
March 1, 2017 at 9:08 pm (Edit)
What’s ugly, rossie?
Oh! you mean the TRUTH?
Well, that’s often the way it goes.
But never mind, us righties are quite prepared to discuss it.
Can’t handle that?
Chris Warren says:
March 1, 2017 at 10:02 pm (Edit)
So says Drongo “…us righties …..”?????
Hmmmmm…. I wonder who wants to join with Drongo as “us righties”????
Judging from his comments about deploying poison against Aboriginals, fascism is more appropriate (unless it apologises).
Scratch a Drogno – find a fascist.
spangled drongo says:
March 2, 2017 at 8:46 am (Edit)
That’s the way, chrissie luv, stick with your “principles”.
Like not discussing the facts, only the ideology.
But you should treat yourself to bullet proof gear first.
You have shot your cred full of holes and you can’t even see it.
LOL!!!
tripitaka says:
March 2, 2017 at 11:41 pm (Edit)
Spangy, ate you sure you aren’t an old queen? The way you call Chris “luv” is a bit dodgy dontcha think?
Don Aitkin says:
March 3, 2017 at 8:24 am (Edit)
Tripitaka, if you try hard you might be able to avoid coarse abuse. If you don’t try hard you’ll land in moderation.
Chris Warren says:
March 3, 2017 at 3:45 pm (Edit)
Yes indeed.
How do you associate comments such as:
“I even offered sodium fluoro acetate to some Aboriginal mates to prove they were indigenous but they politely declined the offer.”
with Abbott’s speech.
But, depending on your consciousness of Australian history, particularly concerning the treatment of local tribes – you cannot let such comments pass unchallenged and there is a need to expose them for what they are.
spangled drongo says:
March 3, 2017 at 4:00 pm (Edit)
Are you serious, chrissie luv or just determined to be blind and obtuse?
Could someone please hand chrissie a torch.
spangled drongo says:
March 3, 2017 at 10:05 am (Edit)
I’m always inclined to call immature minds “luv”, trip luv.
spangled drongo says:
March 2, 2017 at 9:24 am (Edit)
“there is no such thing as society”.
But there’s apartheid, hey trip?
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/mar/01/laws-may-need-t o-treat-indigenous-people-differently-inquiry-head-says
Or is that just the “unintended consequences” of leftyism?
And doesn’t really count?
It’s not racist to treat those disproportionate numbers of aboriginal wife beaters and kiddy fiddlers differently is it?
Stop moralising and stand up for once.
Chris Warren says:
March 2, 2017 at 10:11 am (Edit)
Drongo may be displaying yet more ignorance here.
What data is there that shows that the number of Aboriginal “kiddy fiddlers” (Drongo sic) is greater than within religious ranks?
http://www.clergyabuseaustralia.org/perplist.htm
spangled drongo says:
March 2, 2017 at 9:24 am (Edit)
“there is no such thing as society”.
But there’s apartheid, hey trip?
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/mar/01/laws-may-need-t o-treat-indigenous-people-differently-inquiry-head-says
Or is that just the “unintended consequences” of leftyism?
And doesn’t really count?
It’s not racist to treat those disproportionate numbers of aboriginal wife beaters and kiddy fiddlers differently is it?
Stop moralising and stand up for once.
Chris Warren says:
March 2, 2017 at 10:11 am (Edit)
Drongo may be displaying yet more ignorance here.
What data is there that shows that the number of Aboriginal “kiddy fiddlers” (Drongo sic) is greater than within religious ranks?
http://www.clergyabuseaustralia.org/perplist.htm
Chris Warren says:
March 2, 2017 at 9:25 pm (Edit)
Geez, I’m glad our Drongo has got the numbers, or so it claims. So we can finally find out:
“What data is there that shows that the number of Aboriginal “kiddy fiddlers” (Drongo sic) is greater than within religious ranks?”
Or is this claim just a trick and he has only got a whole lot of numbers on different (diversionary) aspects?
spangled drongo says:
March 3, 2017 at 6:29 am (Edit)
The blitherer, as usual, can’t see the wood for the trees but any rational person can see that when apartheid is required to keep aboriginals in gaol at more “acceptable” numbers, current numbers are out of control and going through the roof.
And of course, a healthy dose of ignorance and the usual denial of the obvious always help:
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/mar/01/laws-may-need-t o-treat-indigenous-people-differently-inquiry-head-says
tripitaka says:
March 3, 2017 at 7:05 am (Edit)
Through the roof I tells ya! Through the roof! Who is a silly old old man standing on the lawn yelling at the world he doesn’t understand and never did.
Tell us about your childhood Drongo. What went wrong that you are so fearful and full of hatred?
But what an asset to the blog you are. Always with something on topic and relevant to the topic to say and never making it all about you and revealing how yuuuge is your need to attack and abuse.
You spend a lot of time and effort here. Do you actually have any friends or family who want you around? Or is your life so empty and full of disappointment and bitterness? It’s such a shame that your abilities have never been appreciated? Why is that do you think?
There are endless reports for people who refuse to put their heads out the window [what does it remind you of] but for lefties, denial, not google, is usually your staunchest friend:
“….communities where sex attacks are commonplace.”
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/queensland-girls-as-young-as-12-receive-implanted-contraceptive/news-story/dfc131cdea7f139b318054ae0d75cf31
But for trip and chrissie, they think blithering is best.
That’s all right, trip luv, that’s all part of the culture of denial.
When you have a one-eyed, unhinged view of the world, you can’t possibly read a bit of honest reporting of inconvenient facts.
It tends to give what is known as “balance”.
But you should break a lifetime habit and try it some time.
A great cure for the immature, trip luv.
spangled drongo says:
March 3, 2017 at 11:51 am (Edit)
For those with the culture of denial:
“Indigenous theatre director Wesley Enoch recently summed up the situation: “I don’t know any Aboriginal who hasn’t had to deal with physical and-or sexual abuse.”‘
Just trying to point out to the blitherers that ~ 100% is slightly more than what happens in all other communities.
spangled drongo says:
March 3, 2017 at 12:10 pm (Edit)
Trip luv, would you care to put aside your CoD and read this, then:
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/feb/21/i-realised-i-ne ver-was-able-to-help-one-child-where-the-justice-system-fails
But how PC is it to say it’s the justice system that fails.
tripitaka says:
March 3, 2017 at 3:09 pm (Edit)
Of course it is the people who fail isn’t it drongo? But why do these people just choose to fail do you think? I suppose any attempt to understand why people do what they do is irrational in your lack of understanding that encompasses so many areas. It’s just obvious to a simple minded man that there are good people like you and bad people who are not like you.
margaret says:
March 3, 2017 at 12:04 pm (Edit)
“An idle man is a dangerous man.” It’s a man problem as much as it is an Aboriginal problem. Who makes pornography? Who introduces it to Aboriginal communities? Who has been responsible for remote communities welfare and education?
I was able to read the article, although I don’t subscribe. It’s horrifying and I see Louis Nowra has penned it. The Monthly article I linked to was also his. He writes as he sees things and he’s truthful.
“Traditional Aboriginal society expressed anger through aggression, but the violence and sexual behaviour was tightly structured through ritual, ceremony and proscribed procedures. But with the influence of alcohol and acculturation, some of these customs have become a pathological distortion of those that were the basis of traditional life.”
I feel for the women. I and those men who are feminists (including Aboriginal men who may not use that word) abhor the disgraceful abuse of women and children that has taken place down the centuries because of patriarchs.
spangled drongo says:
March 3, 2017 at 12:17 pm (Edit)
Yes, marg, as I have said before, siddown money has destroyed their culture possibly more than anything else.
If we don’t strive to survive, we’re nothing.
margaret says:
March 3, 2017 at 12:50 pm (Edit)
I’m sure the first nations survived within their cultural traditions before white colonisers arrived. Now look what we’ve done.
spangled drongo says:
March 3, 2017 at 1:39 pm (Edit)
“Now look what we’ve done.”
Who do you reckon “we” are?
tripitaka says:
March 3, 2017 at 2:50 pm (Edit)
Now that is the real cultural denial drongo. So sad that you can’t understand who “we” are and why and how we should take some responsibility and also take some notice of what they had that in their civilisation that we very much lack in our divided culture.
spangled drongo says:
March 3, 2017 at 4:14 pm (Edit)
I led you by the hand through that several threads back, trip luv, but there is no solution for the obtuse.
Chris Warren says:
March 3, 2017 at 1:44 pm (Edit)
So Drongo now wants to take their money away from them.
All this because he tried to implicate Aboriginals in ghastly business while ignoring similar behaviour coming out of the Great White Race.
And all wrapped-up in Drongo’s fascist ideology of poisoning based on race.
spangled drongo says:
March 3, 2017 at 4:10 pm (Edit)
It’s one thing for trip and chrissie to have a CoD but to be determinedly obtuse and blithering takes a special talent.
Do you think you could at least pay attention to Margaret if you can’t help yourselves.
You would be roll-on-the-ground hilarious if you weren’t so pathetic.
tripitaka says:
March 3, 2017 at 5:38 pm (Edit)
Drongo, your belief that you and only you understand how Aboriginal traditional culture worked is the ‘pathetic’ aspect of this off topic discussion.
Women were not sexual objects for men in the way that white men like you imagine.
When everyone is naked and sex is not a proscribed activity, a secret and dirty thing that only happens behind closed doors, it does not assume the importance that it has in our repressive culture where young boys are not allowed to see a naked woman or a couple having sex. There was no pornography or images of desirable women pouting and putting it out there in Aboriginal life. Sex was just a normal part of the life they led. Aboriginal men did not have the needs and the preferences that men in this sexually weird culture have. Can you possibly understand that and try and understand how you and the other old men who find this aspect of Aboriginal culture to be so titillating.
Violence was rife in their society; it was in Sparta also. It was a hard life and tolerance of pain was a valued characteristic and essential for survival and procreation of the next generation. Everyone hit everyone except children, women beat up themselves and other women and men beat up other men and women. And women could and did have the right to payback on a man if that man had broken the law.
Men were assigned young women as wives but they did not always have sex with them; it was often a way for the elders to ensure that a young girl who had no family and could not be assigned or married to a younger man of the right skin at the time was looked after. Try and understand that our white cultural obsession with young bodies is not universal or part of so called human nature.
It was also the case that an old women could be ‘married’ to a younger man.
The stealing of women by other tribes was done and it was all within the law; the stolen women had to be taken by a man with the right skin and other attributes and treated as required by the law. The inter-tribal violent skirmishes were their version of sport. As I said it was a harsh life and environment with death always a possibility but life was only shortened by the level of interpersonal violence not by sickness or poor health or bad teeth.
These were incredibly healthy and fit people and they did not consider their traditions to be brutish or nasty. Many people including my father who lived and talked with them even in the middle of the last century when there were still people who had lived a somewhat traditional life, consider them to be not nasty and highly spiritual people and their society was psychologically gentle and child centered.
The writings of the brutish white men who inflicted calculated pain and violence on their people as in the whipping of convicts, the incarceration and deliberate starvation and cruelty of poor people who offended the rich man’s laws, by psychologically damaged jailers is not a reliable source of information about how Aborigines lived and how civilised their lives and traditions were and how important and valued women with their ability to provide the next generation, were.
You need to read some more about the way things were rather than continue to rely on your idiosyncratic experiences and the stories you have heard from your dodgy right wing sources who probably still believe that “full-bloods” have very low IQ’s.
I can recommend this article as an introduction to W.E.H. Stanner’s work which may open your eyes to the poverty of your belief system.
https://ses.library.usyd.edu.au/bitstream/2123/10777/1/4_Hiatt_On-Abor iginal-religion-Stanner’s-work.pdf
Lots and lots of monographs and Stanner’s own work is now available at Trove. Check it out.http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/8488312?selectedversion=NBD4461683
margaret says:
March 3, 2017 at 6:38 pm (Edit)
Thank you tripitaka. Spot on.
spangled drongo says:
March 3, 2017 at 7:32 pm (Edit)
Trip luv, you aren’t getting any brighter are you?
You just don’t seem to get what we are arguing about.
It certainly isn’t about historic tribal culture.
It’s about what is happening as a result of the 1967 shift.
You obviously haven’t a clue what goes on today in aboriginal communities and what a cancerous disaster “we” have turned them into.
Don, this is the way to go. If you delete a post, you run the risk of the OFF TOPIC INCORORATED GROUP, THE RACOBITES, THE GAY PRIDE, THE STRAIGHT PRIDE, GRENADES INCORPORATED GROUP, THE WE ARE ALL DOOMED GROUP, THE LEFT LUVVIES, THE RIGHT LUVVIES whining to the 18C people about SUPPRESSION OF FREE SPEECH.
The way you have done it means that the post is still there, thus avoiding Gillian TRIGGS and a protracted court case, a result of which you could lose your house, car and cat, and the grenade throwers can throw grenades all day long. But the grenade pin has been welded in hard !!
I do hope you blog designer has made it simple for you with an OFF TOPIC button.
Oh Peter you poor little snowflake. Have you been triggered by Gillian’s terrible campaign to eliminate old white men from the world?
I don’t know about Gillian but getting rid of all the old men is a thought that some of us women who are destroying the joint have had; the idea is that if all the men in the world died out there would be enough women pregnant with male children to start again without the patriarchy that is such a bad thing for women and children. 🙂
🙂
Oops, not MY son though – he’s great!
Yes Margaret I have two grown up sons now and I wouldn’t want to get rid of them. 🙂
It’s funny how I say he’s great, because I do think all my kids are and I expect we all want to feel that way irrespective of whether they are “successful” in capitalist terms and despite any personal hurdles they’ve sometimes bumped into instead of flying over. How can they be perfect when as parents we are not.
But we sometimes remember funny things and when he was an adolescent something he had done caused him to say to me in quite an exasperated way, “Praise me!”
🙂
Thanks for your patience, Don.
This is probably a good idea. Banish the off-threaders to argue in the corridors.
Here’s something for trip who refuses to brush up on easily obtained details of current aboriginal culture:
“A seven-month-old baby was taken out of her home and raped. She needed surgery under general anaesthetic. A six-year-old girl was playing in a waterhole when an 18-year-old petrol sniffer grabbed her, pulled her under and simultaneously anally raped and drowned her. A 10-year-old girl was tied to a tree for several weeks and raped repeatedly. Then there was the case of a three-year-old girl who had been sexually assaulted by three men. If that wasn’t enough, 10 days later another man raped her twice, once using a mangrove stick.”
And for chrissie who will probably claim it’s the catholic priests who are doing it:
“We also know that Aboriginal boys are 10 times more likely to be sexually assaulted than the rate for the rest of Australia.”
So what drongo? Such terrible stories you like to tell. Why? Do you understand what motivates you to do this?
I still remember the first case I ever heard of about a baby being sexually penetrated by a grown man. It was a white man in the 1970’s in Ipswich. I know now that it happens a lot more often that is reported. The only reason this case was in the papers was that the man had thrown the dead baby onto the roof of a public toilet and she was found.
Apart from the issue of why you like to provide such detailed stories of horrors committed by Aboriginal men which I have to admit that I attribute to some sort of dysfunctional psychology that is also apparent in the way you just love to offend and abuse ‘lefties’, there is the problem – for me – in the way you make statements that indicate that you imagine that you have some sort of superior understanding of what is going on in the world and of how it should be. I have done a lot of reading and research on intelligence and I don’t see any evidence that you do have a high IQ or levels of intellectual ability that would give you such an insight.
Do you know how to make a rational argument? You need to start with your conclusion which seems from my admittedly cursory reading of your comments, that aborigines are very bad people who all rape their children because they are very bad people and all the bad things they do comes from lefties misunderstanding how bad they are and paying them welfare or as you persist in childishly calling it ‘siddown money’. If that is not an accurate summary of your belief could you explain your conclusions about aborigines and what is wrong with them in a concise and reasoned sentence?
To show that the conclusion or your hypothesis is true you need to provide premises, at least two, that explain what evidence you have used to come to the conclusion you have come to. It is a very good thing to convince people like me, if in these premises you provide references to research or some source for the facts that show your conclusion is rational. Note that a link to a complete article is not good enough – you do need to cut and paste the point in the article that you think is relevant to your argument.
So if you want to talk more about this topic please provide some reasoning and/or some rational discussion about the mechanisms or the process that you think is responsible for the difference between the rates of sexual assault by white men and aboriginal men. Explain exactly why is it that there is even a small percentage of white men who have had the benefit of white genes and a white upbringing who rape babies and why it is that white men who have had the advantages of being educated and looked after by the church seem prone to abusing young children and then explain clearly why there are huge numbers or even 100% of aboriginal men who do the same thing?
Wake up and grow up, trip luv.
I’ve spelt this all out to you in the past but you are in denial.
If you want the finer detail, it’s all there and easy to find.
So stop denying it.
Or if you want to see it first hand that’s not hard either.
For those interested, Ken Stewart attempts to explain the method used by the BOM when they try to accurately measure our temps around OZ.
https://kenskingdom.wordpress.com/2017/03/01/how-temperature-is-measured-in-australia-part-1/#comments
Also it’s good to see the Daily Mail quote some of Jo Nova’s work on earlier OZ heat waves.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4221366/Heatwave-January-1896-hit-49-degrees-killed-437-people.html
Families are footing the bill for the UK’s delusional energy policies. Incredible how this fra-dulent extremism has been promoted and encouraged all around the world by govts of the left and right. This corruption and fra-d is very easy to understand yet the MSM are reluctant to inform the people and in fact most will try to hide the obvious truth. But perhaps this could be changing?
http://www.thegwpf.com/rupert-darwall-its-families-who-are-footing-bill-for-britains-deluded-energy-policies/
This Stein et al 2017 study has found that the Arctic today has more sea ice than was the case over the last 10,000 years. It was slightly higher during the LIA but the Med WP had lower levels of sea ice. This seems to correlate well with the Greenland ice core studies over the last 10,000 years. Graph is very interesting and perhaps the decrease in Solar forcing may be a factor? Who knows?
http://www.thegwpf.com/new-study-more-arctic-sea-ice-now-than-for-nearly-all-of-the-last-10000-years/
I thought I’d place my previous comment on an earlier post here because it compliments the 2017
Arctic ice study of Stein et al.
Neville says:
February 11, 2017 at 10:35 am
Another PR 2017 study has found AGAIN that glacier retreat was much greater in the earlier 20th century ( 1925 to 1950) . And after 1960 some glaciers actually advanced until the 1980s. This supports the Le clercq world glacier study that found a slowing of retreat after 1950. Of course no impact shown from higher co2 emissions.
http://notrickszone.com/2017/02/09/new-paper-glacier-melt-rates-were-u p-to-3-times-greater-faster-during-early-20th-century/#sthash.8YtEuni8 .dpbs
And again here is the link to the Royal Society graph showing little dangerous SLR for the next 300 years. This is a graph of all the IPCC referenced models untii 2300. Note Antarctica is negative for SLR for the entire period.
Oh Davy must believe in more co2 magic. Seems SWWA can have record cold temps this month while NSW has a run of the mill NATURAL heat wave. The sort of NATURAL heat wave that’s been experienced for the last 220+ years. Surely they believe co2 is magical pixie dust.
http://rsta.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/roypta/364/1844/1709/F4 .large.jpg
“This corruption and fra-d is very easy to understand yet the MSM are reluctant to inform the people and in fact most will try to hide the obvious truth. ”
Why is this happening Neville? Do you have a theory?
This morning I listened to Geraldine Dooge discussing with John Warhurst and Phil Coorey the question of whether debates in contemporary Australian politics is at a new low or whether it has just been a long-time cycle with periodic lows and highs. Certainly, after visiting Question Time recently, I was disenchanted but many would argue the theatre has been ever thus.
Donald Trump’s clash with elements of US media, Ken Henry’s recent observations, close parliamentary numbers, popularism, factions, a new ruthlessness in politics, a 24hour media cycle – all contribute to heated discussions, partisan discussions at times one could argue.
It’s an interesting point that this year the ABC discontinued its forum discussions around The Drum postings; it is also worth noting that ‘The Guardian’ has community guidelines, a report option for each of its postings, as well as a moderator.
It is natural when politicians themselves – over such issues as energy futures, immigration, Islam, climate change, penalty rates, budget repair – conduct such heated and ideological discussions at times, that these are reflected in the community and the media more broadly.
So it is a courageous person, then, who spends the time writing on a blog site about critical issues of our day and inviting discussion and critique. For many followers, such sites add a little bit of spice to those who come in and make postings; it can even become slightly addictive, says me who frequents many such sites.
As Stephen Smith knows, the art of maintaining relevance, courtesy and focussed debate is a difficult challenge but one worth fighting for. So I am just running through a few comments from Don’s latest posting and wondering if there are certain categories of postings that cause unnecessary discord and actually thwart clear discussion and whether rewriting of them could improve the situation. This is my take and happy to hear rejoinders:
‘Condescending comments and pretend intimacy’: Grown-ups= adults; chrism luv=Chris
‘I’m correct and you don’t get it’: Not too hard to understand, hey=This is my view. I can perfectly understand if you can’t handle the facts= My view is…..You obviously haven’t got a clue= same as above.
‘Consignment of a poster to a personal abyss’: Except for the likes of chrissie= A number of posting on this site, including those of Chris, argue etc etc
‘Abusive or sly personal references’: Scratch a Drongo find a fascist= There are some authoritarian elements in the posting of SD. An old queen=delete. You are a clown=I disagree with your view
‘Unnecessary generalisation’: We’re all feral=the argument I presented could be interpreted as feral.
‘Dismissal of contrary views in a contemptuous way’: Sad attempts to show your own nasty brand of common as muck-raked delusions. Bye hon=I reject the social vision and values of Tony Abbott. Many migrants and indigenous people…..
‘Unalloyed, outright abuse’: Disgusting racist redneck fascism a complete Drongo=Are there racist elements that can be identified in SD’s posting
‘Comments designed to incite or inflame’: ‘Can’t deal with the truths as usual, hey chrissie=The fact is…..but you state etc
‘Phrases open to racist misinterpretation’: Kooris toxic poison=[The Queensland Facebook QUT case encapsulates some of these issues].
‘Attributing weird or puzzling behaviour to a poster’: SD obviously go ‘troppo’ out there=focus on critiquing the views of the person rather than out of exasperation, ascribe imaginary qualities to that person
‘Writing derogatively about the blog author or using mock sympathy’: people are reluctant to post on this site, Don= discuss specifics. Poor Don=The columnist/blog author has invited informed criticism of etc
‘Setting up hostile binaries or dichotomies’: ‘us righties are quite prepared to discuss it=There are many on the right who have argue….
In finishing then, there are many who see moderation as a form of censorship. Indeed I have quite a number of my postings removed from ‘The Guardian’ and even wrote to the moderator etc. My more temperate view is that you can remove some of the heat in a discussion but retain the light. In this blog site there are many contributors who are highly intelligent, credentialed and well informed but occasional flare-ups that are experienced in this forum are a reflection of the broader currents in our society. Of course there will always be, for some, extra milage in a little bickering which is half the fun. That is why I like the option in some e-moderation forums the electronic option where they can do this privately and spare the rest of us.
I agree with PeterD’s disenchantment with Question Time. He probably attends more frequently than I would but every citizen should try to go once at least. I’ve sometimes watched the televised Federal Question Time and I’ve attended the Victorian Parliament Question Time.
It’s about two years since I went to the Vic Parly House Question Time. It was just … completely embarrassing. I think my mind erased most of the the content after a week or so of feeling depressed.
Peter, I think the ABC dropped “The Drum” comments and other comment sections as part of their budget cutbacks. Probably costing too much in time and money.
I believe you can apply to be a moderator on the Guardian comments section, though I’m not sure how much they pay? It beats me where they get the money? They must have a number of wealthy green-left benefactors.
I always enjoy reading the comments to an an overtly biased Guardian article. Half of the commenters are just ideological back slappers in agreement with the article, while the more discerning will point out the flaws and a heated debate usually ensues. Some of the commenters can also be quite witty there.
I would like to think I read the comments section to see what the general reader thinks. Unfortunately all too often commenters are usually opinionated people with an axe to grind, and they are often politically polarised. Such commenters are only using the comments section as a soapbox, they should get their own blog.
“Peter, I think the ABC dropped “The Drum” comments and other comment sections as part of their budget cutbacks. Probably costing too much in time and money.”
Peter, I used to contribute to ‘The Drum’, but I noticed that there was very little moderation, in contrast to ‘The Conversation’, in which forum literally dozens of posts are regularly censored by a paid nanny, so I doubt that money was a problem. The Drum actually acted as an outlet for the conservative voices, which may have played a part in its demise.
It’s amusing that it has been replaced by the regular (almost weekly) appearance on the television program of bearded or hijabed Muslims, representing their 2% or so of the population.
It is also amusing that the ABC invites the admittedly photogenic Yassmin on its programs, but has not yet featured no doubt equally well qualified (or indeed far more knowledgeable) women in Burqas or Niqabs.
Bryan the default position for women on television is ‘telegenic – ness’. It doesn’t always work. But fortunately for the TV moguls and we the viewers, women’s ‘telegenic-ness’ and their good minds don’t necessarily cancel each other out.
Peter, you mean Geraldine of the balanced , impartial comment as per the ABC act?
I think she has just received a special award in that regard:
https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/qed/2017/02/chicken-littles-clucking-trump/
Hullo dlb, bryan roberts and spangled drongo,
It may be true that ‘The Drum’ budget cutbacks explain the disappearance of their associated forums. The decision was made before the arrival of Michelle Guthrie but the time/money involved in moderating them is extensive.
“The Guardian’ is overly biased in some areas, I agree, but over the last seven years, under different names etc, I have posted to ABC, ‘The Guardian’, ‘The Australian’, Yahoo forums in the US, New York Times, ‘The Conversation’ and my overwhelming impression is that each of these media forums has its own ethos, dominant shared philosophy/values, its left/right wing bias etc. What used to amuse me is that I could make a similar post to ‘The Australian’ and to ‘The Guardian’ and on one site, it would receive strong likes and on the other hostility/or removal, depending on the topic.
On the ABC: I have written many postings criticising Kerry O’Brien, Tony Jones, Leigh Sales and Fran Kelly, generally for their aggressive, biased interviewing style.
When Geraldine Dooge used to host ‘This Day Tonight’ she was uncomfortable and all at sea trying to interview hostile politicians. On ‘Life Matters’ and on her RN Saturday radio program she was/is impressive, I find. What makes her Saturday program different is its focus on critical issues of our day – not the short term, ephemeral stuff – and she generally has more time for discussion in her segments and she invites guests who have published recently in the area. It is a program of substantial engagement with critical, contemporary issues.
I know many people resent the ABC, its budget and its bias. I love the ABC, mainly for its drama programs – just have a look at ‘Vera’ from last night on iView – Series 1, Episode 6. I resent the crude assault of advertising and commercial agendas on other media and don’t want to pay for Fox, Netflicks etc but I will rent film from iTunes so I am not altogether pure.
Michelle Guthrie will be announcing savings of around $50 million this week to the ABC, I believe, cutting middle management and removing bureaucratic overlays to increase content. She is moving the behemoth in new directions and what’s wrong with that?
A comment about Yassmin and indeed the ABC’s coverage of Nauru, Manus etc. The Australian people clearly want the boat smugglers model dismantled, as this Coalition government has done, and they want an end to ceaseless ABC/Sarah Hansen-Young type exposure. I can understand and respect people who fight for the rights of long incarcerated refugees. It is a matter of balance and more importantly, solutions.
Yassmin, and similar guests that Q&A include on its panels, represent minority viewpoints, as does Pauline Hanson, Clive Palmer etc. and their views can be legitimately discussed in such forums. Personally I resent Tony Jones chairmanship, the cheap gotya moments the program seeks to manipulate, and some repulsive politicians talking-over each other and dominating the discussion.
I know that Yassmin is becoming a bit of an ABC pin-up girl – charming, an engineer, a travelling media wagon, a positive Muslim woman etc. I think her views need to be assessed – as with anyone’s – on what she says about specific issues. Many Muslims may practise Sharia Law as a personal code but it also true that some barbaric IS regimes have ruthlessly imposed Sharia Law to subjugate whole communities, particularly women in the ME. Despite Jackie’s comments I don’t see any difficulties with a personal Sharia code and it is not a serious threat to our established Judaic/Christian/Roman tradition. On full facial covering, burqas etc: they are offensive to Australian values. In the ME, Saudi Arabia etc, where they are much more common, my view is that men should also wear them if they’re so desiirable.
I disagree with Yassmin’s reasoning around her walk-out at the Brisbane Literary Festival during Pan Sriver’s talk. Yassmi’s view was that those “from marginalised groups, even today, do not get the luxury of defining their own place in a norm that is profoundly white, straight and, often, patriarchal.” Too much talk about cultural identify and appropriation needs some plain talking from the Jackie Lamby’s of this world to settle things down.
Thanks, Peter.
Yes, people will always practice their own codes in private and that’s what a free country is all about but wouldn’t it be nice if our ABC promoted assimilation.
Jacky Lamby rose somewhat in my estimation, too.
Peter, I agree with your thoughts about the ABC. I generally like it too, especially compared to the commercial alternative. If the ABC could drop its nanny style of telling us what we should think it would be a whole lot better.
Re Yassmin, both the ABC and SBS seem to like immigrant success stories like her. Unfortunately they never tell us about those who are having problem integrating into our culture and the many that can’t get a job.
I think Vera is sterling. I think that if men in Saudi Arabia wear white flowing robes (as in Lawrence of Arabia), then why should burqas be black?!!
I like Geraldine and I’ve seen her “live” about 15 years ago, she was terrific. So was Germaine Greer at the Llewellyn Hall.
I don’t think Tony Jones does a good job on Q&A and I think that silly confection of watching make up artists blending in the guests complexion imperfections is just trivial nonsense.
But basically I appreciate the ABC so much whenever I go to any other television channel (excepting SBS – good news service and films).
Feminists like Germaine and Geraldine are totally spineless when it comes to standing up against a repressive muslim attitude.
But some people are waking up:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-3609237/Swiss-region-Muslim-boys-shake-female-teachers-hands.html
Hullo spangled drongo:
You suggest Germaine and Geraldine are spineless in terms of their not standing up to aggressive Muslim attitudes. My view is that both of these woman have strong antipathy to IS in the ME but they don’t see the Islamic threat in the same way that you do. In fact, Geraldine would regard I think many Muslims as her friends and sincere adherents of a major world religion. I am not a regular viewer of ‘Compass’ but she would see many Muslims in a very positive light.
There is a recent media reference that a Principal of a Sydney High School with a large enrolment of Islamic students has barred women from attending the presentation ceremonies because they refuse to shake hands with females. Andrew Bolt, of course, is onto this but at this stage I am not sure of the facts. If all is as reported, though, it is a concern in my view and should be fully explored because it sets precedents in other state schools. My first reaction is to really query the facts and find out the realities and I am unsure of them. In instances where the facts are clear, action is required: such as inappropriate financial arrangements in some Islamic schools in Australia.
I don’t think Germaine Greer is a wilting violet but ‘spineless’ is not generally a word I associate with her: shy, withdrawing, quiet, keeps to herself, avoids the limelight – maybe!
“I am not sure what you would think of Kristina Keneally’s views on this topic. Her point might be that we see threats and spinelessness in the wrong areas: it is a matter of relativities. Even though she is a Catholic, she reserves her anger for the Church of which she is a member rather than Muslims. I’m not sure if that qualifies as ‘spineless’ but she has ‘attitude’.
“Why isn’t this same outrage applied to Australian Catholics? If we are going on a body count the Catholic clergy has done more harm to more Australians than extremist Muslims. More than 4,000 reports of sexual abuse at the hands of Catholic church made to the royal commission. God knows how many more are unreported. Innocent Australian children and young people are the victims. Lives have been ruined: suicides and mental illness, broken families, grotesque physical injury.
It’s easier, isn’t it, to pick on the young woman with the scarf on her head, or get upset about two little girls in a hijab, all in the name of making Australia safe.
What brave defenders of freedom, of Australia, you are.”
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/27/catholicism-has-done-more-harm-to-australia-than-islam-wheres-the-outrage
Yes, Peter, there is an argument that we would be better off under Islam than Christianity but it is piss-weak.
And that is simply by-the-way. The Christian culture is what we have and what we are and these Muslims have come to this country to live for generations at least and most likely forever.
They have to assimilate.
Leading feminists wrt Muslims assimilating in this country skirt the cultural elephant as never before.
This has absolutely nothing to do with appeasing moderate Muslims many of whom, a couple of generations ago had western dress habits.
It is all to do with cowardice under the cover of PC.
Just look at the feminists here, how they protest at every imagined slight yet when confronted with the incredibly restricting practices on women by this religion they are struck dumb.
Imagine if OWM had said males can’t shake hands with females as was often the custom in the west in the distant past but not any more?
Hate to say it but they need to grow a pair.
Hullo spangled drongo:
Just posting a reply to your posting:
You referred to:
“An argument that we would be better off under Islam than Christianity” [Who is seriously arguing this?]
‘these Muslims have come to this country to live for generations at least and most likely forever’ [But you could argue this about all Europeans, Italians, Germans, Asians etc]
They have to assimilate [The word ‘have’ suggests compulsion; generally assimilation occurs over three generations but sometimes never.]
Leading feminists wrt Muslims assimilating in this country skirt the cultural elephant as never before [I notice you did not refer to Geraldine and Germaine but it may be that feminists are focussed on what they regard as more critical issues].
This has absolutely nothing to do with appeasing moderate Muslims many of whom, a couple of generations ago had western dress habits [Some would argue that the real problems – even amongst ‘Christians’ are those with fundamentalist views e.g, those who oppose abortion and want to shoot up clinics etc]
It is all to do with cowardice under the cover of PC [PC is a blanket terms that covers a multitude of sins – like to see you state specifics here].
Just look at the feminists here, how they protest at every imagined slight yet when confronted with the incredibly restricting practices on women by this religion they are struck dumb. [I agree that there is a strong patriarchal element in Island, Judaism and Christianity – and indeed in employment of women at executive level in Australia and in political representation numbers – so specifics need to be given instead of generalisations. Is it the burqa? does it have to do with welfare? is it enclaves, ghettoes in our cities? is it crime rates amongst unemployed youth? – let’s hear the detail.]
Imagine if OWM had said males can’t shake hands with females as was often the custom in the west in the distant past but not any more? [I agree – if this is the case at the Sydney High School, as I mentioned yesterday – that this is serious discrimination and should be challenged if it is a fact.]
Hate to say it but they need to grow a pair [I see SD that you figure at times in the transfer to Off-topic. I’m not sure why this is but this last aside might be a clue!]
Hi Margaret
So I take it that you don’t regard Geraldine and Germaine as spineless?
Hi Peter
Two very different people and different ways of seeing things, but G and G are both feminists and in no way spineless.
Quote from Germaine from Geri’s talk with Germaine after a panel discussion in 2015.
“Really I do feminist stand up … I don’t know why people haven’t realised it yet,” she proclaimed later as we settled down with a post-discussion white wine. Quite so, methinks. (I can hear Geraldine saying that 🙂 )
A little off track, Wendy McCarthy is another feminist quoted in this piece and I agree with her take on feminism.
“I’ve always had a strong view, ever since I identified as a feminist, that it must be possible to be a feminist, have a good relationship with a man and be a parent. If you can’t be all these things, it means that 90 per cent of women can’t be feminists. If only 10 per cent of women can be true feminists, there is no future in it. And I believe there is a lot of future in being a feminist. It’s a whole new perception of the world.”
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-13/doogue-heres-what-feminism-looks-like—2015-style/6312450
But SD you say they’re spineless on the matter of Muslim repression, both G’s I’m sure would have opinions on Islam fundamentalism but they would also have respect for moderate Muslims practising their faith within their communities, the majority of those we encounter in Australia and if we are fortunate and welcoming with whom we might even count as friends.
If you want “spine” on this matter Pauline is the one for you.
HI Margaret,
I couldn’t agree more with your posting re ‘spineless’.
There are some issues which SD validly raises but take, for example, Geraldine Dooge who works for the ABC: I am not sure exactly what Geraldine would have to say or do to be relieved of the charge of being ‘spineless’ by SD but I am sure that if she did it, she would then be accused by many others of telling us how to think and indeed of being a horrible, interfering nanny.
Peter, d’you think that if Geraldine told us all that it just is not acceptable in this country for men to require women to put a bag over their heads that she would have anything to fear from rational people?
How can anyone possibly argue that it is quite appropriate for them to be told to do so but nannyism to be told to stop?
What do you think this says about us as a nation when we can’t bring ourselves to address this glaring issue?
And if anyone in the extreme minority says anything, they are ridiculed?
HI spangled drongo
Would Geraldine have anything to fear if she told us all that it just is not acceptable in this country for men to require women to put a bag over their heads?
Yes: many people – especially readers of the Oz – despise the ABC and resent its budget but perhaps they’re creating a little easier today after announcement of 200 job loss.
Nannyism has to stop?? Nannies will be nannies – whatever!
What does it say about us as a nation? I thought we were a nation of sheep but now I’m confused.
Ridicule of the extreme minority: this is healthy, because prophets are never accepted in their own country.
“An argument that we would be better off under Islam than Christianity” [Who is seriously arguing this?]
A lot of half-serious Australian men. Maybe when the two Gs find out they may summon the courage to say something.
Peter, having strong antipathy for IS does not require courage. What takes courage is standing up to mainstream Islam that wants to change this country.
The handshake episode is being repeated in many places so you don’t have to be too “unsure”.
Leading feminists like the 2Gs are never wilting violets when it comes to attacking and belittling soft targets like OWM [what else] but when there is courage required they are MIA. Spineless is putting it mildly.
I apologise for not being more precise when I said in reply to your: “I am sure that if she did it, she would then be accused by many others of telling us how to think and indeed of being a horrible, interfering nanny.”
I said: “how can anyone possibly argue that it is quite appropriate for them to be told to do so but nannyism to be told to stop?”
I should have said: how can anyone possibly argue that it is quite appropriate to tell Muslim women to put a bag over their heads but that it is considered nannyism to tell those same women to stop doing it?
I also think Kristina K makes some foolish errors in her claims about Catholicism and compares it with Islamic harm to this country when she should be comparing it with Islamic harm to Islamic countries. Where the kiddy-fiddling was promoted by the prophet himself and has thrived ever since. Where, when they attacked and conquered Persia they sold all the child virgins into concubinage and killed the rest.
She doesn’t know what she is talking about.
HI spangled drongo
Only two points your raised that I would like to add to:
Kristina K: she is only referring to Australia. She is a Catholic and has a Masters in Theology but does not feel the same sense of threat that you do. As a former Premier of NSW she has had to process more empirical data than you or I have to.
Mainstream Islam in Australia: I agree that there are some elements in Islam that are of concern to many Australians and we have touched upon some of these. Of course, Pauline Hanson sees much more than most Australians in this area and she resonates with people. I am much more confident in the resilience and substance of Australian society but I think we need to talk always in terms of specifics instead of terms such as ‘the yellow hordes’, ‘white Australia’ or even ‘kiddy-fiddling’. If you study history, even the Child Crusades, Roman history, Greek history, medieval history generally there have been advances in civilised behaviour etc. Of course when you look at ISIS this becomes questionable.
What follows comes from the Nannies thread
spangled drongo says:
March 5, 2017 at 6:49 am (Edit)
However,[sorry to bring it up, Don] what we are all avoiding is the elephantine nanny-in-the-room which is the confected CAGW scare based on the Super Nannies’ ideology c/w poor and adjusted “science”.
https://climanrecon.wordpress.com/2017/03/02/climate-distortion-in-aco rn-sat/
Reply
Chris Warren says:
March 5, 2017 at 8:46 am (Edit)
Why do f###n zealots have to sneak climate into every thread? Bloody Drongs
Reply
spangled drongo says:
March 5, 2017 at 9:44 am (Edit)
That’s OK, chrissie luv, no need to bed-wet.
I can quite understand your desire to deny and dodge this nanny elephant.
Reply
tripitaka says:
March 5, 2017 at 12:52 pm (Edit)
They do this because it is one of the very few articles of faith that they can agree on these days; climate change denial is one of the few things that they can all agree on since they are so fractured about the other foundations of rightism. They bring it up so that they can identify fellow travellers and know that the other person is on their side and is not going to challenge them with facts and rational arguments and trigger their need for a safe space free from the rational argument and facts that lefties are able to raise.
The tax fetish was a yuuge thing a while ago and the article of faith that brought libertarians and conservatives together but that seems to be less popular lately and I see some real divisions between these two rightie groups. But there is Trump and Brexit and Marine LePen’s resurgence that also function as indicators through which they identify fellow travellers and bond with them and then they can all delusionally pretend that these events indicate that the right is winning no matter how much they various factions hate each other.
The
You are on the ball Don. Well done. 🙂
Although I have to say that I am sure the Spangled Drongo did not think he was off-topic since he thinks that accepting the scientific consensus about man made climate change is all part of the ever growing nanny state-ism that has taken over the civilised western population.
“climate change denial is one of the few things that they can all agree on”
Please provide evidence or stop telling lies.
“the rational argument and facts that lefties are able to raise.”
Be my guest and provide that too, hey, trip luv.
You will be breaking completely new ground in both cases.
Neville says:
March 5, 2017 at 11:28 am (Edit)
Interesting to check out the freedom of speech issues and Michael Mann’s persuit of anyone who would challenge his hockey stick delusion. Of course Mark Steyn has written a best selling book just chock a block full of scientists who have strongly criticised Mann’s silly study and all media in the USA have abandoned him in his court case as well.
But now Dr Judith Curry has filed an Amicus brief against Mann for his personal disgusting attacks upon her and Steyn. His abandonment and abuse of the scientific method is also a strong part of her brief. But this fool must be the worst/best example of a nannykins softy in the scientific world over the last 30 years. Here’s the link and just note that many of the scientists in Steyn’s book are of the left.
http://www.steynonline.com/7690/a-serial-transgressor-of-scientific-no rms
A new revolutionary power station produces power and captures co2 emissions at no extra cost. Now being tested in Texas. This could be an incredible breakthrough.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2017/02/21/revolutionary-power-plant-captures-all-its-carbon-emissions-at-no-extra-cost/#b16cad2402db
And a new Zhang et al study has found that extreme weather events have dropped by about 50% over China in the last 60 years.
https://phys.org/news/2017-02-china-severe-weather-patterns-drastically.html
Neville
The revolutionary, incredible breakthrough may not be all that you think.
It is the “Allam Cycle” and if you check the Wikipedia entry you will find that CO2 emissions, matching fuel consumption, are simply piped somewhere else. There is a saving in that traditional scrubbers are not needed.
This is not a solution. It may reduce emissions from the power plant “to the atmosphere”, but what happens to the CO2 at the end of the pipe? All we seem to have is a statement: “could potentially be sold for use in enhanced oil recovery.”
From Wikipedia:
The carbon dioxide is compressed mechanically, and a small amount, matching the amount continuously added through combustion, is captured at high pressure, ready for pipeline transmission.
It seems that the 2009 McKay et al study also found that today’s Arctic sea ice coverage was not unusual when compared to levels over the duration of the Holocene. And certainly had no relationship to co2 levels. Here’s a summary of the study from Co2 Science that compares well with the latest 2017 Stein et al study.
Holocene Fluctuations in Arctic Sea-Ice Cover Reference
McKay, J.L., de Vernal, A., Hillaire-Marcel, C., Not, C., Polyak, L. and Darby, D. 2008. Holocene fluctuations in Arctic sea-ice cover: dinocyst-based reconstructions for the eastern Chuckchi Sea. Canadian Journal of Earth Sciences 45: 1377-1397.
Background
Writing about the Arctic Ocean, the authors say that over the past thirty years “there has been a rapid decline in the extent and thickness of sea-ice in summer and more recently in winter as well,” but they state there is “debate on the relative influence of natural versus anthropogenic forcing on these recent changes.” Hence, they decided “to investigate the natural variability of sea-ice cover in the western Arctic during the Holocene and thus provide a baseline to which recent changes can be compared,” in order to help resolve the issue.
What was done
McKay et al. analyzed sediment cores obtained from a site on the Alaskan margin in the eastern Chukchi Sea for their “geochemical (organic carbon, ?13Corg, Corg/N, and CaCO3) and palynological (dinocyst, pollen, and spores) content to document oceanographic changes during the Holocene,” while “the chronology of the cores was established from 210Pb dating of near-surface sediments and 14C dating of bivalve shells.”
What was learned
Since the early Holocene, according to the findings of the six scientists, sea-ice cover in the eastern Chuckchi Sea appears to have exhibited a general decreasing trend, in contrast to the eastern Arctic, where sea-ice cover was substantially reduced during the early to mid-Holocene and has increased over the last 3000 years. Superimposed on both of these long-term changes, however, are what they describe as “millennial-scale variations that appear to be quasi-cyclic.” And they write that “it is important to note that the amplitude of these millennial-scale changes in sea-surface conditions far exceed [our italics] those observed at the end of the 20th century.”
What it means
Since the change in sea-ice cover observed at the end of the 20th century (which climate alarmists claim to be unnatural) was far exceeded by changes observed multiple times over the past several thousand years of relatively stable atmospheric CO2 concentrations (when values never strayed much below 250 ppm or much above 275 ppm), there is no compelling reason to believe that the increase in the air’s CO2 content that has occurred since the start of the Industrial Revolution has had anything at all to do with the declining sea-ice cover of the recent past; for at a current concentration of 385 ppm, the recent rise in the air’s CO2 content should have led to a decrease in sea-ice cover that far exceeds what has occurred multiple times in the past without any significant change in CO2.
During the Holocene Antarctica has seen a variation in the ice sheet and this 2016 Bakker et al study found greater variation over the past 8,000 years than was previously understood. During the last 40 years the Antarctic ice sheet has increased in size and the PAGES 2 K study (Gergis, Karoly etc ) found that Antarctic temps were higher from 141 AD to 1250 AD ( MedWP) than they are today. Here’s a link to this latest 2016 study.
http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/antarctic-ice-sheet-study-reveals-8000-year-record-of-climate-change
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.news.com.au/technology/environment/climate-change/welcome-to-the-madhouse-scientist-says-trump-could-destroy-the-world/news-story/0e31691ab55a520800cef7dbd289fdad
Professor Mann makes a lot of sense, as usual.
David’s support of “upside down Mann” is very amusing. See Steve McIntyre’s forensic work on some of his studies and perhaps you’ll wake up to this fool? Here’s my post again from above on this nasty piece of work. As far as I’m concerned you’re welcome to him and his silly studies. Go Judith and go Mark.
Interesting to check out the freedom of speech issues and Michael Mann’s persuit of anyone who would challenge his hockey stick delusion. Of course Mark Steyn has written a best selling book just chock a block full of scientists who have strongly criticised Mann’s silly study and all media in the USA have abandoned him in his court case as well.
But now Dr Judith Curry has filed an Amicus brief against Mann for his personal disgusting attacks upon her and Steyn. His abandonment and abuse of the scientific method is also a strong part of her brief. But this fool must be the worst/best example of a nannykins softy in the scientific world over the last 30 years. Here’s the link and just note that many of the scientists in Steyn’s book are of the left.
http://www.steynonline.com/7690/a-serial-transgressor-of-scientific-no rms
Here’s another story about their so called GREEN renewables that most people don’t understand. The production of these rare earth products have created a hell on earth in parts of China. WUWT has covered this in the past and now Jo Nova links to a MSM report highlighting this mess.
Let’s hope that more people now understand the lies and propaganda that prop up clueless energy sources like S&W.
http://joannenova.com.au/2017/03/windy-clean-green-pollution/#comments
Now really Neville, there has to be a rational reason for people like me to accept that the level of lies and propaganda going on in science is at the level that you claim.
Can you tell me why some of us choose to be clueless? What is the motivation?
I am interested in understanding human behaviour/nature and that involves understanding my own self and why I believe what I do. You do know that this sort of curiosity is the foundation of western science so as an intelligent person yourself I imagine that you must be curious and have some sort of theory about why some of us just choose to ignore all the things that you see are so wrong with science now.
I’ve read some of Jo Nova and she is not very rational. 🙁 Her writing is all over the shop and one has to be a paid up member of the denialist conspiracy to make sense of her treatises. So I’d rather you explain it given that you find it so easy to understand and so reliable as a source of real facts as opposed to fake facts.
And why are you so worried about a few people in China? Surely the truth is they are choosing to live in these hell on earth areas? Those Chinese are not compatible with our western Christian civilisation and it’s nothing to do with us (unlike the hell on earth we create for the other incompatible people we incarcerate in detention centres for having the egregious desire to live here). So what’s with the concern? Are you virtue signalling?
Here are the “fake” facts, trip luv:
1/ After many centuries of the coldest period of civilsation known as the Little Ice Age [global cooling], it is reasonable to expect some global warming. Just as it was similarly warm for a few centuries prior to that when human carbon emissions certainly were not responsible.
2/ Unadjusted global mean temperatures since the beginning of data collection 166 years ago which also correspond with the beginning of the industrial revolution show a total global warming of less than 0.8c which is less than 0.5c per century.
3/ Average natural climate variability per century for the last 80 centuries is about 1.0c per century [as per peer reviewed science]. Prior to that it was much greater.
4/ Global warming is therefore still only half the rate of recent natural climate variability.
When green, proggy, catastrophe-screamers create this hell-on-earth from their “real” facts which are based on GCM predictions that are so wrong and getting wronger by the day, they conveniently deny all responsibility.
They actually think their new religion is science based when it is really proggy-scientist based, and the brainwashed can’t tell the difference and relish every drop.
The thing is drongo that I don’t respect you or your reasoning.
I’ve never seen any evidence that you can think rationally and even understand what objectivity is, so I can’t take your silly responses seriously and it’s kinda boring and off-putting reading the abuse that seems to be the only reason you comment. I suppose Don should be commended for providing a safe space for bitter old men like you to vent your bitterness and unhappiness with the real world and save you from being sectioned and medicated.
The fake facts you provide above don’t make sense and in no way counter the ‘real’ facts that real climate change scientists and so many other intelligent people all over the world accept.
Don’t blither, trip luv.
I set out 4 simple facts. All you have to do if you claim they are wrong is refute them one by one.
If you have any “real” facts simply list them as I did, for me to refute if I can.
Is that simple and logical enough for you?
Still waiting for trip to list her “real” facts.
Trip luv, would Bill Nye be any help:
http://blog.dilbert.com/post/157823678756/tucker-carlson-induces-cognitive-dissonance-in
Yoo Hoo!!! trip luv!!!
Still waiting!!!
How’re your “real” facts going???
Trip must have read that link to Bill Nye and come to the conclusion that her “real” facts just aren’t what she first thought.
Thinks: could she be that smart?
Greenpeace now admit they cannot be trusted and they freely admit they exaggerate and lie to make a case against companies. And yet left wing donkeys think they are simply wonderful. So much for logic, reason , evidence, data and the rule of law. Incredible but true, just ask them.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/03/03/dr-patrick-moore-was-right-greenpeace-is-full-of-shit/
Here’s a connected story about a woman who was a left wing extremist all her life but started to have doubts after a comment made by David Horowitz in 2004. Anyway she lists 10 reasons why she abandoned her former life of left wing activism and hatred. It’s a very good read, but I always find it hard to understand why it takes some people so long to wake up.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/03/05/a-primer-on-the-hatred-of-climate-skeptics-one-woman-saw-the-light-and-is-no-longer-a-leftist/
A very strange woman indeed Nev. She wouldn’t be a leftist that I would be friends with or like any of the lefties that I know and she isn’t even like any of the righties that I know either. But then you are like drongo, a kind of extremely abusive rightie that seem to flourish in this environment that I’ve never encountered.
But you know, it is always extremists who go from one stupid ideology to a different stupid ideology instead of looking for the middle ground and an explanation of why stupid ideologies take hold in some people’s minds.
Trip luv, you don’t seem to understand that the difference between what you say on this subject and what Neville and I say is that Neville and I produce evidence.
You, not so much.
So, instead of you simply making subjective judgements and denying what’s happening around you, why not try offering some evidence?
More confirmation that the west Antarctic ice sheet temp has not exceeded natural levels over the last 308 years. This Thomas et al study just confirms what the longer 2000 year Steig et al study found, that natural cooling and warming has occurred a number of times over the last 2000 years.
http://www.co2science.org/articles/V17/N17/C1.php
And the Yoon et al Holocene 2002 study of the Antarctica peninsula has found that there is a reasonable correlation with the Northern hemisphere. Also the climate seems more stable in warmer periods than at cooler times. Here is the summary from co2 Science and the link.
http://www.co2science.org/articles/V5/N52/C3.php
What it means
These findings have several important implications. First, the authors say they indicate that “the maritime record on the Antarctic Peninsula shelf suggests close chronological correlation with Holocene glacial events in the Northern Hemisphere, indicating the possibility of coherent climate variability in the Holocene,” which observation fortifies our contention that the millennial-scale climate variability so well established in the Northern Hemisphere (of the Little Ice Age / Medieval Warm Period type) is truly global in nature. Second, the authors’ data demonstrate that climate is typically much more stable during warmer times (such as the mid-Holocene climatic optimum or the current Modern Warm Period) than it is during cooler (Neoglacial) or colder (glacial) times, when significant and rapid warmings and coolings often occur, as we have also repeatedly noted. Third, the data are in complete harmony with the well-established fact that a warmer world is a more productive world.
So what do the results of this study tell us about the state of the world today? They tell us there is absolutely nothing unusual about it … except, perhaps, that it’s a much more pleasant and productive place than it is when cooler conditions prevail.
Here is Dr Pat Michaels submission last month on the “social cost of carbon”. This was before the US House of Reps and is very long and comprehensive. Judith Curry’s submission also found that the SCC was indeed minimal and should be ignored. Here’s Michaels address link and his conclusion .
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/03/04/at-what-cost-examining-the-social-cost-of-carbon/
Conclusion
The social cost of carbon as determined by the Interagency Working Group in their August 2016 Technical Support Document (updated from IGW reports from February 2010, November 2013, and July 2015) is unsupported by the robust scientific literature, fraught with uncertainty, illogical, and thus completely unsuitable and inappropriate for federal rulemaking. Had the IWG included a better-reasoned and more inclusive review of the current scientific literature, the social cost of carbon estimates would have been considerably reduced with a value likely approaching zero. Such a low social cost of carbon would obviate the arguments behind the push for federal greenhouse gas regulations.
More on the “social cost of carbon” junk science. Just more GIGO.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/03/06/end-the-phony-social-cost-of-carbon/
Here’s the last couple of paragraphs of Judith Curry’s post on the SCC. Absolutely spot on.
“Climate variability and change impacts water, food and energy. But there isn’t much we can do to influence the climate on the timescale of the 21st century — however much we have impacted the climate over the past 70 years or so, those impacts (large or small) will work their way through climate system over the next centuries as the oceans act as a big flywheel on the climate system.
Back to the question posed by Revkin: Will Trump’s climate team accept any social cost of carbon? Well, I hope not. Here’s to hoping for a more pragmatic approach to all this in the Trump administration”.
https://judithcurry.com/2017/01/17/rethinking-the-social-cost-of-carbon/
Here’s my version of the SCC . This compares the last 200 years to today. Absolutely no argument at all. But remember this really is a comparison of today versus the time since the first civilisation. Think about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbkSRLYSojo&t=1s
And here again is more proof. Look at first 6 mins of Rosling’s TED talk. All the data one could ask for and all PR. So why do so few tertiary or so called educated people understand any of this?
Neville
You may benefit if you were better acquainted with TED talks.
Just google “TED Climate Change”
They are explain why some people retreat into a state of denial. Here is an example;
http://www.tinyurl.com/Denial-Basis
Very illuminating.
You may also benefit being better acquainted with Rosling particularly his views about the need to deal with CO2 emissions.
See here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxbprYyjyyU
Of course most people agree with Rosling and with various TED presentations. Why not you.
Don’t be a Drongo.
Chrissie luv, if you seriously wish to make an argument for CAGW please use honesty and evidence.
Not blither.
And do try and avoid the phrase “climate change”.
It just comes across as desperate deception and destroys any cred you may have had.
Chris the first video is a joke and proves you’ve learnt nothing. And TED talks allow most groups a chance to express their point of view. Even some very nutty ones who have no respect for logic, reason and very simple maths. Like Obama, Holdren, Gore, Flannery etc who haven’t even read the latest EIA report on future co2 emissions by 2040.
And Dr Rosling was correct in the other videos because he correctly listed all the benefits of co2 since 1810. But he is wrong in your link because his remedy wouldn’t make a scrap of difference to the climate or temp by 2100. Unless you can tell us how it will?
Of course it will also waste 100s of trillions of $ for no measurable difference in temp over the next 83 years. Very simple maths and science.
Oh and have a look below at BOM’s link to OZ’s hot angry summer .
Here is Dr Rosling’s Gapminder ignorance project link. Here is a quick summary of their mission and the link. They certainly have their work cut out. I’ve talked to some groups who get very hostile if you mention any of these facts.
So much for our education system. I listened to that fool Shorten about 10 days ago and what he said made me cringe. He raved on about how much more extreme the weather was today and that’s why Labor’s plans will help to fix these problems in the future. Unbelievable ignorance displayed by our future PM, (???) yet he’s happy to utter this nonsense because the MS Media are as ignorant as he and the Labor party are about “the latest extreme weather data”. These Labor fools and their followers are barking mad, yet they lead in the latest polls.
http://www.gapminder.org/ignorance/
About
“The mission of Gapminder Foundation is to fight devastating ignorance with a fact-based worldview that everyone can understand. We started the Ignorance Project to investigate what the public know and don’t know about basic global patterns and macro-trends. We use surveys to ask representative groups of people simple questions about key-aspects of global development.
When we find large knowledge-gaps, we know what teaching materials we should develop. The first results from surveys in UK and Sweden were published in 2013. As the project evolves we will investigate many more countries. The test questions and results will be made freely available under Creative Commons Attribution License”.
A number of recent studies show that recent grape harvesting startup dates are not unusual throughout Europe. So where is their co2 impacted CAGW? Looks like the evidence and data has gone missing AGAIN.
http://notrickszone.com/2017/03/06/historical-grape-harvest-dates-show-modern-temperatures-no-warmer-now-than-most-of-the-last-1000-years/#sthash.eeKGedSp.dpbs
And the already very high German electricity prices are projected to quadruple by 2020. Compare the near flat USA graph with France and the disastrous German outcome. Why do they still tell porkies about S & W energy and why do the people vote again and again for these con merchants? The mitigation of their so called CAGW is the greatest fra-d in history and it is mind boggling that people cannot understand it. And all this has been copied by the clueless Vic Labor govt. Will the voters ever wake up?
http://notrickszone.com/2017/02/28/german-electricity-price-projected-to-quadruple-by-2020-to-over-40-cents-per-kilowatt-hour/#sthash.VCrrorhh.dpbs
I have almost been able to personally reclaim the b-word but I still recoil somewhat because my upbringing was genteel 🙂 .
For International Womens Day.
http://www.motherjones.com/media/2017/03/men-taking-credit-women-history
And marg, what did you think of women taking over all the men’s jobs who were dumped for IWD?
Our ABC, which is already over weighted with fems is today turfing out the few males to make it an all-girl affair.
But their hypocrite slip is showing:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/janet-albrechtsen/unsightly-contortions-of-tweetdeep-feminists/news-story/d588f46e83290b9ea7c08bcb8d5fc61e
SD, your link is not helpful to people who are not subscribers to the Oz. If they are, they don’t need the link!
You are right of course, Don, but it gives those of any imagination the idea to search and there are lots of links:
http://honey.nine.com.au/2017/03/07/06/07/women-abc
And marg has claimed in the past that she can access articles in the Oz without being a subscriber. But possibly not in more recent articles.
I did not like the all-woman day on tele, I did not like it Sam I am
I do not like green eggs and ham.
I could not access Janet Albrechtesen, I do not like her Sam I am
I do not like green eggs and ham
I did not like Kelly O’Dwyer’s interview on RN Drive, I do not like her Sam I am
I do not like green eggs and ham
etc etc with apologies for the lame tribute to Dr Seuss.
The Conservative women in politics are just ghastly and in the media I basically only like Emma Alberici and Jane Hutcheon and Geraldine on Compass. I don’t like the warm and fuzzies that carry on like pork chops and flash their pearly whites and sing the sailors to the rocks.
http://www.abc.net.au/radio/melbourne/programs/drive/kelly-odwyer-balancing-a-motherhood-&-a-cabinet-ministry/8335754
What an absolute waste of time she is – drivel.
BUT I do support child care educators going on so-called “strike” because of their lousy pay.
Marg luv, have you ever checked how many seriously hard working people get less than the kiddy minders $20 per hour?
There are plenty.
For example, many storemen in warehouses who lift and stack continually, get around $18 per hour.
More drivel by the Drongo.
Using words like “many” creates a falsification. Many could be 20, 200, 0r 2,000 but these are not necessarily representative.
Those getting around $18 hr are junior rates or adults with less than 12 months service, or those who for some reason have not progressed up to storeman grade 2.
The current Storage Services and Wholesale Award sets hourly wage at $19.56 ph, and $743.20 pw,
Most adult storemen would be at or over this.
Saturday is $29.34 hr
Sunday is $ $39.12 hr
P Hol is $48.90
Early morning shift and night shift are over $22hr.
As usual, deluded chrissie goes straight to google and thinks he knows the facts.
My 50+ youngest son who is an anatomical scientist by trade, works as a storeman at Woolworths and has done for the last 5 years. As a permanent employee he gets less than $20 an hour.
Did you also check the child carer rates on google?
There are more things in heaven and earth than are recorded on google, chrissie luv.
You really need to get out more.
http://www.theage.com.au/comment/parents-are-woefully-illinformed-about-childcare-its-not-good-enough-20170312-guw8wx.html
“Childcare is a service like no other. It is inherently hard to measure the level of care, attention and genuine connection provided to a child by their educator.
As a market, the provision of childcare services suffers from a lack of information for consumers and a lack of ability to shop around to get the best product at the lowest cost. It’s hard for parents to easily switch centres and uproot their little people’s lives.
Almost all of Australia’s 3.8 million children aged 12 years or under have been exposed to some type of early childhood education and care, according to the Productivity Commission. This can include pre-schools and family daycare, but centre-based care is in growing demand.
Parents need better and more up to date information on the quality of care their children are receiving.”
Parents are less productive at work if they are worried about their kids or wracked with guilt about leaving them. Children, too, need quality care from highly-skilled and happy educators to develop into productive members of society.”
Marg, did you feel that putting dresses on traffic lights was a great win for women’s rights on IWD[?]:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/subscribe/news/1/index.html?sourceCode=HSWEB_WRE170_a&mode=premium&dest=http:%2F%2Fwww.heraldsun.com.au%2Fnews%2Fvictoria%2Fpush-for-all-victorian-pedestrian-crossings-to-have-equal-number-of-male-female-signals%2Fnews-story%2Fdab2639286e8b5c5a21904a16804b31b%3Futm_source%3DHerald%20Sun&utm_mediam=email&utm_campaign=editorial&memtype=anonymous
I can’t access it either but you can read the PC message.
Here it is on Andrew:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/equal-opportunity-stop-lights-for-melbourne/news-story/1bb7181aa7ee7f97c065e2a1cf6f0253
A bit silly I thought since so many of us prefer pants – but nothing to get your knickers in a knot about spangled drongo.
“A bit silly I thought since so many of us prefer pants”
That was my first thought also.
When all aspects of govt are stretched financially [and PC is stretched to incredibility] somebody obviously got their “knickers in a knot” sufficiently to carry out this completely unnecessary PC stupidity.
You obviously don’t think monetary and PC stupidity needs calling out, hey marg?
Interesting that we’ve been bombarded today from Steffen’s, Flannery’s Climate Council about our hot angry summer. It seems Steffen etc can see a trend brought on by their CAGW.
But if that’s the case why isn’t the WA trend the same as eastern OZ? The WA anomaly for T max is cooler for last summer and the T max anomaly for Eastern OZ is warmer and the 2 halves have the same 400+ ppm co2 driver???
Magical stuff this co2, it can cause a hot angry summer in the east and a cooler summer in the west. Amazing and of course Nat weather variability wouldn’t have anything to do with it? Same goes for rainfall as well. Just incredible isn’t it? Any thoughts?
http://www.bom.gov.au/jsp/awap/temp/index.jsp?colour=colour&time=latest&step=0&map=maxanom&period=3month&area=nat
Yes, Neville. Absolutely spot on. If there’s one thing that BoM map is telling us is that we are “enjoying” weather, not climate, and there is nothing happening warming-wise, one way or another.
Neville
I don’t think you understand your own argument. Are you saying that grape harvest show no warming?
Or are you saying no warming but only when compared to medieval warm period?
This is just like saying no warming for28 years BUT only when compared to 1998.
You are being seriously misled.
Chris our instrumental record for GLOBAL temps only goes back to about 1850. All I’m saying is that we have seen some warming since the end of the LIA and that is a very good thing.
And perhaps some of that warming is due to extra co2, but it is very hard to calculate what percentage of warming since 1950 could be attributed to some AGW. Who knows.
But the Stein et al study has shown us that we NOW have the highest sea ice extent in the Arctic since the start of the Holocene. Although the Holocene Arctic high point was during the LIA and is slightly higher than today’s level. Greenland Holocene ice core temp measurements seem to back this up.
The AEMO is telling us this morning that OZ could run out of gas in the next 2 years,. We are a very big gas exporters and the largest coal exporter in the world and yet we’ve just been told that we may not have enough energy to run homes or businesses within a couple of years.
If this doesn’t prove that our pollies are barking mad then I don’t know what does. And Labor’s clueless solution is to rely even more on fairy tale energy like S&W, like Labor in SA and now clueless Labor in Vic. Amazing but true that we can export millions of tonnes per year of coal and gas to every country who will pay but can’t guarantee our own energy security at home.
Here’s a good article from Tony Thomas making many of these points and much more to think about. BTW I hope Don does write a column on the SCC like he intended to do a couple of months ago. Curry and Michaels don’t see the SCC as being a problem at all. See above.
https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/doomed-planet/2017/03/natives-getting-retless/
A Drongo statement …
“there is nothing happening warming-wise, one way or another.”
Chrissie-luv, we have been waiting for you and your bedwetting brotherhood to demonstrate scientifically and conclusively for years that your religion on CAGW is the bees knees but somehow you always manage to start, stumble, fart and fall every time, at each hurdle.
But cherrypick away. It’s entertaining.
A good report on the dangerous, fra-dulent and delusional wind turbine industry. Incredible to think that govts want to promote and encourage the use of these bird mincers. And all because they’re too stupid to understand simple logic and reason.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/03/08/science-deniers-in-the-wind-industry/
Neville
“And perhaps some of that warming is due to extra co2,”
Now we are getting somewhere. If the extra CO2 does not create extra warming, then where is the heat that is being trapped below the stratosphere going?
As you know, the temperature readings in the high stratosphere are falling at over 7.5C per century – so far.
See: C14 trend here; http://images.remss.com/msu/msu_time_series.html
Chris.
If you click on the reference for C25, which covers all of the stratosphere, rather than the upper stratosphere, the cooling trend is 0.395C per decade (3.95C per century). On the other hand it is in the troposphere where the extra warming is expected and the trend there is only 0.135C per decade (1.35C per century).
Perhaps there are other factors besides CO2 which are impacting on temperatures in the troposphere and stratosphere.
Just checked out the York UNI tool and found it now includes UAH V 6. But did a quick check of 1910 to 1945 trends compared to 1978.99 to 2017.2 trends and found a difference of 0.028 c per decade greater warming in the later trend. That’s an average of 6 ground based data bases.
So even with all their endless adjustments over the years the later 38.2 year trend was only about 0.3 c per century greater than the earlier (pre 1950) 36 year trend.
But please check it out yourself.
If we start at Phil Jones’s 1975 to 2017.2 I think you’ll find that we’d add another 0.1 c per century of warming in the later trend because that’s when the PDO changed from cool to warm phase. About 1976 I think.
http://www.ysbl.york.ac.uk/~cowtan/applets/trend/trend.html
Another accurate editorial from the Bolter about our barking mad mitigation of so called CAGW. All pain for no measurable gain by 2100 or beyond.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/tips-for-friday-march-10/news-story/01ab9941ebddff386aa93f07a77bb46a
This is what their best science is actually telling us. I don’t offer an opinion but the RS and NAS believe it.
https://royalsociety.org/topics-policy/projects/climate-change-evidence-causes/question-20/
Why is Drongo so stupid????
IN response to …
“The current Storage Services and Wholesale Award sets hourly wage at $19.56 ph, and $743.20 pw,”
The Drongo says:
“My 50+ youngest son who is an anatomical scientist by trade, works as a storeman at Woolworths and has done for the last 5 years. As a permanent employee he gets less than $20 an hour.”
Maybe someone else could explain to Drongo, that “$19.56 ph,” is in FACT LESS than $20 an hour (ordinary hours).
Drongo’s false claim was his drivel that:
“…many storemen in warehouses who lift and stack continually, get around $18 per hour.”
Strange that Drongo now wants to spew about everything else but his false claim that many storemen get around $18.
Notice also Drongo’s false claim that the facts I used came from Google. This only exposes yet more ignorance from the Drongo. It doesn’t know how to get current rates for storemen.
Falsification Count, now 29.5. Ignorance count, now 6.
Chrissie luv, what makes you assume that he works under that award?
The ~ $18 an hour I gave you is more likely $17 and something.
Which, last time I checked, happens to also be “less than $20 an hour”.
When I can check with him I will get back to you. In the meantime I suggest you stop your silly assumptions.
When you fail on every argument by claiming you know it all it is plain where the falsification and ignorance really lie.
Plus your usual ducking and dodging of straight questions.
Unless the Drongo can show any adult working permanently at Woolworths gets less than $20 per hr – Drongo will be exposed as a blatant liar.
You can get the Woolworths National Agreement here:
http://www.tinyurl.com/woolworths-2015
38 “ordinary” hours are paid [pg46]
Not even any entry level team member working in their first 4 months gets less than $20.
There is no possibility that any normal adult working for Woolworths for 12 months or more get less than $20 per hr.
This was all made up by Drongo. It deliberately spread this total lie which is consistent with every other falsification it has insulted the rest of us with.
Drongo even made up this little pfretend act “Which, last time I checked, happens to also be “less than $20 an hour”.
Drongo never checked – because the results of any check would have been at page 31 – 37 at http://www.tinyurl.com/woolworths-2015
So, is Drongo just covering up one lie with another????
Falsification count now: 31.5.
As usual, chrissie luv, there are more things in heaven and earth than your tiny mind can dream up.
Woolworths encompasses many businesses and when I have the details from my son I will let you know but assistant storeman where he works is listed from $18-$19 per hour.
This is what I was telling marg when you put your oar in.
Just as you did with my friend telling me about his/her 20% interest rate in the ’80s claiming you knew it was wrong.
When you naturally wouldn’t have a clue what a bank owned finance co [or a bank operating conjointly with its finance co] would charge a small business operator who was using his/her house title as collateral on a loan.
Particularly one extended to the max.
You’re not only full of it, chrissie luv but you just can’t stop it running all over the floor.
Blithering is a polite word for it.
Ho, ho, ho …. Drongo doesn’t know ….
First it says ….
“For example, many storemen in warehouses who lift and stack continually, get around $18 per hour.”
Then
“My 50+ youngest son who is an anatomical scientist by trade, works as a storeman at Woolworths and has done for the last 5 years. As a permanent employee he gets less than $20 an hour.”
Then in desperation, we get …
“Woolworths encompasses many businesses and when I have the details from my son I will let you know but assistant storeman where he works is listed from $18-$19 per hour.”
Why the switch to assistant storemen, as in “Woolworths …. assistant storeman … listed from $18-$19 per hour”
This could well be another disgusting Drongo lie? So Drongo where is there evidence that Woolworths pays $18-$19 for adult assistant storemen???
We may have to increase Drongo’s falsification count yet again.
Chrissie luv, blithering and crowing don’t go well together especially when you have nothing to crow about.
He gets under $20 an hour as I have repeatedly said. A recent rise from $18 to $19 he just tells me.
An assistant storeman is [guess what?] a storeman.
And do you happen to know everything Woolworths own that isn’t called Woolworths?
Like your previous know-all blithering and denial of 20% mortgages you are similarly ignorant and wrong here.
If it really was something not Woolworths but owned by Woolworths you would have named it originally, and would have certainly named it now. What business – Safeway, Flemings, Dan Murphy’s, BWS, Cellarmasters????
And if such rates were “listed from $18-$19 per hour” for assistant then where is this list ???
And why are you falsifying “…many storemen in warehouses who lift and stack continually, get around $18 per hour.” into
ASSISTANT storemen ???????
You can see what rates “assistant” storemen get by searching on SEEK.com.au
Just where are there Drongo’s “many storemen in warehouses who lift and stack continually, get around $18 per hour.”
Telling fibs about one, unverified, incompetant worker who only manages to get “assistant” grading after 5 years permanency is a Drongo diversion.
So it looks like the Drongo has tried to pass-off yet another fabrication – as I suspected.
Fabrication count now: 32.5
No evidence, no consistency, just complete fabrication on top of fabrication.
Chrissie displays with every post how those of the warming persuasion can turn anything they choose not to agree with into their idea of falsification.
He now agrees with me that storemen get less than $20 an hour even though he claimed in his original scream that I was wrong and they would be getting over $20.
But he has to claim that he is really right because a storeman can be classified as an assistant to reduce his wages.
Why do you think business does this, chrissie luv?
Or do you deny it happens?
Like you deny all your falsifications that you somehow feel you must transpose onto others.
Stupid, stupid Drongo.
It claimed “…many storemen in warehouses who lift and stack continually, get around $18 per hour.”
Talk of $20 is twaddle. Talk of “assistant” is twaddle. Talk of Woolworths is twaddle, Talk of mysterious lists is twaddle.
All just diversionary twaddle to cover lies from a genocidal poisoner.
Poor, pathetic, pedantic chrissie has no idea what a storeman is.
Most of those people who work in warehouse retailing spend possibly half their working hours stacking and storing no matter what their official title is.
And their rates often start from below $16 an hour.
When you’ve lost the argument it’s always the right time to stop with the blithering, chrissie luv.
The true dimwittedness of chrissie is well demonstrated here with his incredibly limited imagination when he confuses an explanation of true indigeneity with genocidal poisoning. Oh dear!!!
To be a good blitherer you don’t have to be thick but it helps.
The 2016 Foster et al study found that temps had dropped in Antarctica over the last 4,000 years.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0012821X15007220
And the Yu et al 2016 study from the west Antarctic peninsula found that is was warmer than today over much of the past 1500 years.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2016GL069380/full
Yes, Neville, but that realistic, unremarkable, non alarmist science will never be featured in the MSM.
They prefer the fake news:
http://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/3/3/14792174/half-scientific-studies-news-are-wrong
With progressives, we know it’s not the argument but is it the side or the gender that counts?:
http://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publications/news/2017/march/trump-clinton-debates-gender-reversal.html
I haven’t linked to the composition of the gases that combine to form earth’s atmosphere for a long time. The 3 main gases are Nitrogen 78%, Oxygen 21% and Argon 0.9%, and so combined they make up 99.9% of the planet’s atmosphere.
But the remaining 0.1% of the atmosphere is made up of trace gases like co2, methane , helium, neon etc. But then comes the variable of water vapour and clouds that change over the short and long term. Water vapour changes from 0 to 4% of our atmosphere and at the poles it is very low and at the equator it is at the highest concentration.
https://climate.ncsu.edu/edu/k12/.AtmComposition
All scientists agree that modeling of WV and clouds is a problem and if clouds were to decrease/increase over a period of time temps would likely change as well. So if a 30 year period of weather had more clouds compared to the previous 30 year period of weather the 2 periods of “climate” would not be the same.
If we look at OZ from 1970 to 2000 and compare it to the OZ of 1920 to 1950 we can see a big difference in rainfall. OZ overall is a much wetter place today than in the earlier part of the record. Of course OZ is just one small region of the globe but it just shows how the climate can change over decades and centuries. Also unfortunately southern OZ has been cooling and experiencing less rainfall over the last 6,500 years that matches other studies in Antarctica and NZ. See Calvo et al. Here’s the BOM rainfall anomaly graph since 1900. Don’t forget that OZ was still suffering from the federation drought at the start of this record in 1900.
http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/climate/change/timeseries.cgi?graph=rranom&area=aus&season=0112&ave_yr=T
Our climate scientists, particularly those leading lights like David Jones and pretenders like Flannery that were worshipped by the proggy activists earlier this century should be sued for bankrupting the country with the incredible indebtedness they caused by their ranting.
We pay billions in interest, maintenance and write-downs and I can hear the local desal plant which has yet to produce a litre of the necessary, rusting away from my place:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/environment/this-drought-may-never-break/2008/01/03/1198949986473.html
And with the madness that is about to be unleashed under labor govts to solve a likely non-problem, we haven’t seen anything yet.
Yet we are enjoying some of the best weather and climate we have possibly ever had.
Our last true cyclone that crossed the coast south of the Tropic of Capricorn was back in 1976 – over 40 years ago – whereas prior to then we had around half a dozen a year.
We’ve never had it so good:
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v505/n7485/full/nature12882.html
Poor old Drongo,
Scrapping the bottom of the barrel now…
“And their rates often start from below $16 an hour.”
This does not apply to able-bodied adults – the vast majority of the workforce..
Is this another falsification ???????
“This does not apply to able-bodied adults – the vast majority of the workforce.”
I doubt if you’d know, chrissie luv.
Those are the adult rates starting from level 1
Junior employees start at as low as 45% of adult rates.
An adult can still be at level 1 after 5 years.
So we have a proven falsification.
There are no adult level 1 rates below $16 ph for a 38hr ordinary time week.
Junior rates are irrelevant twaddle, and whether some workers are at any level for 5 years is beside any point.
Falsification count now 33.5.
Blithering chrissie strikes again. Dan Murphy’s $15.97 – $24.96. Coles-Myers $15.23 – $22.01:
http://www.payscale.com/research/AU/Employer=Dan_Murphy%27s/Hourly_Rate/Job/Customer-Service-Assistant
These CSAs often have fork lift licences and spend as much time packing, stacking, dismantling pallets and unloading trucks as they do serving customers. Much manual work involved.
Drongo – ignorance on a stick.
You don’t know how to access proper data. These OBVIOUSLY include junior rates. If Drongo understood pay rates and read the Woolworths Enterprise Agreement I linked to – it would not make such blatant blunders.
As I said there are no adult level 1 rates below $16 ph for a 38hr ordinary time week.
This is clear, simply because all adults are entitled to the minimum wage which is over $16. No permanent adult worker in Australia, working legally full-time, receives less than the minimum wage.
Woolworths, Dan Murphy’s and Coles all pay adults at or above the legal minimum.
So falsification stays at 33.5, but ignorance goes up 1, now 7.
So now, blithering chrissie, is my claim of $18, which this stupid discussion brought on by you is all about, right?
Now Drongo says:
“… is my claim of $18, which this stupid discussion brought on by you is all about, right?”
LIAR
On March 11, 2017 at 9:34 am the Drongo said,
“And their rates often start from below $16 an hour.”
As this just repeats previous falsifications, I will just increase the count by a half.
Falsification Count now: 34. Ignorance count stays at 7.
What an absolute lying, denying blitherer you are, chrissie luv, and you just proved it
This is where you stuck your bib in wrt wage rates:
spangled drongo says:
March 9, 2017 at 9:47 am
Marg luv, have you ever checked how many seriously hard working people get less than the kiddy minders $20 per hour?
There are plenty.
For example, many storemen in warehouses who lift and stack continually, get around $18 per hour.
And your following comment:
Chris Warren says:
March 10, 2017 at 6:32 am included:
Those getting around $18 hr are junior rates or adults with less than 12 months service, or those who for some reason have not progressed up to storeman grade 2.
Quite wrong of course but most importantly you tell lies about it.
Oh, that inconvenient truth that brings blitherers undone.
Drongo
repeating old canards is b-o-r-i-n-g.
If the Woolworth’s Agreement (or subsidiary) showed that
“Those getting around $18 hr are junior rates or adults with less than 12 months service, or those who for some reason have not progressed up to storeman grade 2.”
was wrong, I am sure you (or someone else) would have pointed it out.
Didn’t you get enough sleep last night?
As usual the fabricator tells more lies and dodges the issue.
Where’s your evidence that my claim of $18 is wrong and it only applies to juniors or adults of less than 12 months’ service?
Drongo
You have been told.
“You can see what rates “assistant” storemen get by searching on SEEK.com.au”
And just because you are such a slow learner I will tell you again:
“You can see what rates “assistant” storemen get by searching on SEEK.com.au”
As usual, the blitherer can’t produce the evidence.
What I said originally to marg:
“For example, many storemen in warehouses who lift and stack continually, get around $18 per hour.”
Is correct.
Well I am surprised. All that winning going on in WA and not a peep about it here.
What’s going on? Oh I know… you all are just waiting until Corey Bernardi gets his version of the right wing alternative up and running, and then we will see how much the ordinary Australian cares about 18C and wants a party that takes away penalty rates from the lowest paid people. lol Can’t wait for that.
It’s called wearing blinkers whenever it suits tripitaka …
http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/news-and-views/opinion/its-not-enough-to-fight-for-equality-within-the-current-system-and-kate-ellis-is-proof-of-that-20170313-gux53d.html
She’s not the first woman to quit, let alone the first person. I know several former MPs who thought that their families, especially their young ones, deserved more of their father than they were getting. It is not as collegial a place as it once was, and I’ll write a piece about that soon.
To be frank I’m not concerned about losing Kate Ellis, more about the fact that it’s one less woman in parliament. As far as I know Kate Ellis has done a good job but she entered the arena as a young unmarried woman – things changed as they usually do.
But the same system that tries to make women politicians into sexed-up fashion plates (I remember her fashion spread in Grazia magazine and there are many examples of her love of high heels) http://m.dailylife.com.au/news-and-views/dl-opinion/whats-wrong-with-this-picture-20120130-1qpb7.html
is the system that basically ‘invented’ women in the image that empowers men (and women who wish to play that card). It’s called patriarchy, I recognise that as a young woman I had fewer choices (and much more susceptibility), than to play the game but women like Kate Ellis, well – more choices are available and she has had her fair share of them. I’m done with the patriarchal unfairness of society.
http://www.booksbycarolinemiller.com/musings/a-womans-world/many-women-dont-get-feminism/
Sally McManus is a very impressive person. Let’s see trickle-up economics.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/mar/29/neoliberalism-has-run-its-course-says-actu-boss-sally-mcmanus
Marg, you don’t possibly think that our problem might be the global economy where we are exporting our jobs at ever increasing rates and the last thing we need is a mad union strike attack that will put even more out of work?
With ever lessening protected and subsidised industry and robots increasing we can’t afford the luxury of strikes like we used to.
And that silly sally with her desire to go on the rampage breaking laws and holding the country to a ransom we can’t pay for might just add the coup de grace?
How does trickle-up work in that situation? Sure you don’t mean trickle-down-your-leg?
We have to get smarter, not stupider.
$45 a week raise of the minimum wage is barely there. Sally ain’t silly. Her National Press Club address was superb.
Just apply your brains, marg. How can anyone afford a $45 increase when margins are being cut? The only place where this is not happening in this global economy is where unions are cooking deals with employers to defraud some third party.
And that party is usually the taxpayer. Or the house or apartment buyer. It won’t come from genuine productivity increase.
It’s theft.
Sally is a smart-arse.
She is as far from the label smart-arse as you are from the description erudite.
Marg, you ran out of logic and evidence way back so I suppose name calling comes next.
I like this person, I like who and what she stands for. If you want to understand what that is you can watch her address to the National Press Club yesterday. It’s an impressive speech.
http://iview.abc.net.au/programs/national-press-club-address/NC1706C010S00
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/mar/29/neoliberalism-has-run-its-course-says-actu-boss-sally-mcmanus
The iView link doesn’t work but it’s easy to go to iView – unless of course you are wedded to Foxtel and Sky news etc.
More on the paradigm shift that is coming.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/paul-keating-says-neoliberalism-is-at-a-dead-end-after-sally-mcmanus-speech-20170329-gv9cto.html
Marg, you’re obviously impressed by gender-challenged women who don’t believe in free markets.
There’s a lot of trouble down that road.
SD if your son is a storeman surely you are on his side.
Marg, That is a very limited view. Don’t your loyalties extend beyond your immediate family?
Naturally they come first but if you support them to the exclusion of everything else you ain’t doin’ them any favours.
And with the state of today’s labour market, silly sally is treading quicksand.
Each of my children has a university education, and yet, I am on the side of people like your son (although he is possibly older and better established than workers I’m particularly concerned about in today’s working poor climate. Not a limited view, it’s the big picture of a just society.
If you’re on the side of the workers then the correct long term view is that the workers can only be paid what their product allows.
There are no “rights” or “just society” here, only what works.
And in spite of what she says, prices are falling in many areas.
So unless, like silly sally, you want to do away with the free market and move to Marxism, you have to live in the real world.
Her Marxism model didn’t work too well last time.
Sally McManus is very pro CFMEU unlike wiser people such as Hawke and Crean and she also tells lies about them:
http://www.smh.com.au/business/workplace-relations/new-union-chief-sally-mcmanus-has-a-problem-with-facts-20170319-gv1rn6.html
From your link:
“You see, I would contend that how you go about breaking a law plays into the ethical calculus. McManus suggests the rampant bully-boy style of the CFMEU is a valid industrial tactic.”
BS – she does not suggest that at all.
You need to watch Sally McManus answer questions from the floor after her speech at the National Press Club where she does address that.
http://www.smh.com.au/business/workplace-relations/sally-mcmanus-becomes-the-first-female-actu-secretary-20170313-guwyb4
You missed this bit:
“In her interview with Leigh Sales on the 7.30 Report, McManus said: “Grocon got fined $330,000 for killing five workers, where the CFMEU got fined even more. And I just think that’s totally wrong.”
The problem, as McManus herself has subsequently admitted, is that Grocon has not killed five workers.”
Yes, she has subsequently addressed that error. Why would she lie if it’s on record that there were not 5 deaths? It was an error. No-one is able to be perfect and over everything, mistakes are made and they’re not necessarily lies.
You’re missing it, marg.
She claimed Grocon killed them.
She knew she was telling a lie but so what?
Well their negligence did.
There were only 3 people killed. Why would she say 5?
There were others equally culpable like the hoarding sign people who could have been the total cause of the disaster but of course Grocon was always going to cop it with the CFMEU being the witness.
She’s prepared to tell lies to score points.
Well, we’ll leave it there shall we? I’ve at least learned that there’s no mileage in arguing on and on and on.
I like Sally McManus. She impresses me. Anyone who watches her speech at the National Press Club will find her ethical stand on a fairer society for all those that we rely on for our services, lifestyle, children’s education, health and general wellbeing in the ‘lucky’ country, will also be impressed.
Well I hope you are right about her, marg, because we could sure do with some responsible people in charge. but I don’t think she is up to scratch on the big picture, wanting those sorts of wage rises.
Anyone can sound superficially ethical by making motherhood statements.
Our problems run so much deeper than that:
http://www.menziesrc.org/images/PDF/TheShepherdReview_StatementOfNationalChallenges_March2017web.pdf